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	<title>Comments on: Guest post: Interactive agencies need to stop being advertising agencies</title>
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	<link>http://mumbrella.com.au/guest-posting-interactive-agencies-need-to-stop-being-digital-agencies-3612</link>
	<description>Everything under Australia’s media, marketing &#38; entertainment umbrella</description>
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		<title>By: Simon</title>
		<link>http://mumbrella.com.au/guest-posting-interactive-agencies-need-to-stop-being-digital-agencies-3612#comment-3248</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 22:58:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mumbrella.com.au/?p=3612#comment-3248</guid>
		<description>The rant was not about advertising.  It was about the way the digital industry is doing advertising.  As Matthew says Google shows you have to be useful to be successful and advertising on Google is useful.  It helps you find what you are looking for.

The current situation does not really work for anyone.  Publishers need advertisers and vice versa but I&#039;d argue the advertising industry, the dating agency between these two is not doing as well as it should in the digital arena.

And on another topic has anyone seen the latest site from Kia - www.notwosouls.com.au 

So the client spends money on TV advertising but does not tell you the car brand.  The website is invisible to Google because it&#039;s Flash and a new URL that&#039;ll be sandboxed so the client is buying search to support the campaign.  If you do a search because we know advertising drives search and you do in fact find the site the description in the SERP says: Soul - No two souls are the same. You need Javascript turned on to view this site.  Compelling copy.  It&#039;s a youth brand perhaps they have an affinity for Javascript.

It&#039;s the Scion site without the intelligence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The rant was not about advertising.  It was about the way the digital industry is doing advertising.  As Matthew says Google shows you have to be useful to be successful and advertising on Google is useful.  It helps you find what you are looking for.</p>
<p>The current situation does not really work for anyone.  Publishers need advertisers and vice versa but I&#8217;d argue the advertising industry, the dating agency between these two is not doing as well as it should in the digital arena.</p>
<p>And on another topic has anyone seen the latest site from Kia &#8211; <a href="http://www.notwosouls.com.au" rel="nofollow">http://www.notwosouls.com.au</a> </p>
<p>So the client spends money on TV advertising but does not tell you the car brand.  The website is invisible to Google because it&#8217;s Flash and a new URL that&#8217;ll be sandboxed so the client is buying search to support the campaign.  If you do a search because we know advertising drives search and you do in fact find the site the description in the SERP says: Soul &#8211; No two souls are the same. You need Javascript turned on to view this site.  Compelling copy.  It&#8217;s a youth brand perhaps they have an affinity for Javascript.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s the Scion site without the intelligence.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Delprado</title>
		<link>http://mumbrella.com.au/guest-posting-interactive-agencies-need-to-stop-being-digital-agencies-3612#comment-3241</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Delprado</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 12:04:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mumbrella.com.au/?p=3612#comment-3241</guid>
		<description>Lynchy,

The type, and amount of advertising that the consumer will put up with has changed. Google proved that you can get rich on 50 character ads, but there&#039;s isn&#039;t much overhead an agency can charge for writing them.

Google proves you need to be useful to be successful. Others are proving you can be entertaining and be successful too, but clever isn&#039;t enough anymore.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lynchy,</p>
<p>The type, and amount of advertising that the consumer will put up with has changed. Google proved that you can get rich on 50 character ads, but there&#8217;s isn&#8217;t much overhead an agency can charge for writing them.</p>
<p>Google proves you need to be useful to be successful. Others are proving you can be entertaining and be successful too, but clever isn&#8217;t enough anymore.</p>
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		<title>By: Lynchy</title>
		<link>http://mumbrella.com.au/guest-posting-interactive-agencies-need-to-stop-being-digital-agencies-3612#comment-3240</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynchy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 11:55:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mumbrella.com.au/?p=3612#comment-3240</guid>
		<description>Simon,

Has the game really changed? Like other mainstream media, particularly free to air TV,  the internet relies on advertising for its very existence (mainly crap advertising, admittedly). You wouldn&#039;t be able to Google anything if Google wasn&#039;t funded by advertising - including fees for paid search. Google is the greatest benefactor of advertising the world has ever seen - revenue of around US$20 billion in 2008.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Simon,</p>
<p>Has the game really changed? Like other mainstream media, particularly free to air TV,  the internet relies on advertising for its very existence (mainly crap advertising, admittedly). You wouldn&#8217;t be able to Google anything if Google wasn&#8217;t funded by advertising &#8211; including fees for paid search. Google is the greatest benefactor of advertising the world has ever seen &#8211; revenue of around US$20 billion in 2008.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Delprado</title>
		<link>http://mumbrella.com.au/guest-posting-interactive-agencies-need-to-stop-being-digital-agencies-3612#comment-3238</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Delprado</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 11:35:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mumbrella.com.au/?p=3612#comment-3238</guid>
		<description>Well said Peter. I think that those posting here that live too close to awards are only seeing a fraction of the potential of what interactive can offer clients. 

Sadly, in my experience, most traditional creatives are only looking for the latest trick of technology that has the chance of winning them an award.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said Peter. I think that those posting here that live too close to awards are only seeing a fraction of the potential of what interactive can offer clients. </p>
<p>Sadly, in my experience, most traditional creatives are only looking for the latest trick of technology that has the chance of winning them an award.</p>
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		<title>By: Simon</title>
		<link>http://mumbrella.com.au/guest-posting-interactive-agencies-need-to-stop-being-digital-agencies-3612#comment-3236</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 11:02:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mumbrella.com.au/?p=3612#comment-3236</guid>
		<description>Nice one Peter.  I agree advertising people view the Internet as another medium for advertising.  We used to need advertising.  We found out about new products and services through advertising.  We can find anything we want now we just use a search engine.  We all understand that really deeply.  Many of us completely ignore advertising until we want something.  The game has changed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice one Peter.  I agree advertising people view the Internet as another medium for advertising.  We used to need advertising.  We found out about new products and services through advertising.  We can find anything we want now we just use a search engine.  We all understand that really deeply.  Many of us completely ignore advertising until we want something.  The game has changed.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Jeffares</title>
		<link>http://mumbrella.com.au/guest-posting-interactive-agencies-need-to-stop-being-digital-agencies-3612#comment-3235</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Jeffares</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 10:59:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mumbrella.com.au/?p=3612#comment-3235</guid>
		<description>As another response to Simon&#039;s Guest Post arrived in my Inbox, I found the topic of the eNewsletter that sat directly below this new alert incredibly ironic ... it was from Adweek Interactive and was titled &quot;Razorfish Tries Out TV&quot;.

Read it at http://tinyurl.com/dc664x</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As another response to Simon&#8217;s Guest Post arrived in my Inbox, I found the topic of the eNewsletter that sat directly below this new alert incredibly ironic &#8230; it was from Adweek Interactive and was titled &#8220;Razorfish Tries Out TV&#8221;.</p>
<p>Read it at <a href="http://tinyurl.com/dc664x" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/dc664x</a></p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://mumbrella.com.au/guest-posting-interactive-agencies-need-to-stop-being-digital-agencies-3612#comment-3233</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 08:45:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mumbrella.com.au/?p=3612#comment-3233</guid>
		<description>Hi Lynchy,

Digital advertising is just one part of digital, which I think is at the core of what agencies need to &quot;get&quot; about digital. 

Digital advertising gains much of the spotlight in the trade press, but that is because the trade press tends to look at digital from an advertising only perspective (which is understandable). However, the digital channel is far more than this - take a look at AIMIA&#039;s digital services index to review the complete scope of digital (http://digitalservicesindex.com.au/)

Yes, part of digital is advertising, however at the core of digital is business transformation, something that it is fair to say has been catalysed by digital as opposed to say TV or radio (DM has had its moments in this regard though!) Digital has redefined complete categories such as music and financial services, through business transformation.

A good digital agency, and indeed any agency that does digital, will look beyond advertising and help their brands change the way they do business using foresight and knowledge. Lynchy, you come at digital from am advertising angle, so I completely undertand your viewpoint, but the pie is far larger.

Years ago, interactive agencies were very, very good at helping brands adapt their businesses in order to keep pace with a transformed market. This is becoming a bit lost in the advertising rush - even though most promotions are simply band aid fixes that fail to address very real business problems. No matter how many promotions Sony Music for example push out the door through their agencies, it isn&#039;t going to solve their fundamental market problem. This is where good digital agencies used to step in. Some still do. So do some ad agencies. But not often enough.  Simply throwing marketing dollars at promotions doesn&#039;t change the fact that for many brands, and industries, the ambulance is at the door. I can guarantee that brands that take this approach to a changing market are finding that the law of diminishing returns holds true. Better to jump first than be pushed.

I am an advocate of how important creative is in communicating with consumers (creative tends to be vastly undervalued, but that is another conversation). That said, it takes more than great creative, great copy, or great promotions to enable success in the digital channel. Taking care of these only addresses a very small part of what can be achieved. As an industry, the digital industry needs to refocus, and help brands redefine the way they do business, not simply focus on advertising to get a short termm hit of success.

Unfortunately at Cannes or AWARD there is no category for best use of digital to transform a business, yet this is the crux of what digital is all about. And this is understandable, since they are advertising driven award shows; but since they ignore the core of the digital channel, which is business change. So  citing how many awards an agency wins at these isn&#039;t a good measure of success - but they are a great measure of digital advertising, which is different.

This lack of understanding regarding using the digital channel to transform a category has been what has held ad agencies back in the past, as they have been driven by advertising (read media spend). This is also changing. The gap between digital agencies and ad agencies is narrowing in terms of core competencies (though some would argue this is because the bar has been lowered, which may be something that Simon alluded to).

A lot of great digital strategists are actually very good at business modelling as opposed to creating online promotions - and many do both. But I would suggest that if your digital strategist isn&#039;t helping you remodel the way you do business, then look elsewhere.

So when you intimate that there is nothing much to get apart from &quot;coming up with powerful, relevant ideas that engage the target market via the digital medium,&quot; this highlights the problem - it not just about engaging the market, it is about changing the market itself.

End of Soapbox 2.0!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Lynchy,</p>
<p>Digital advertising is just one part of digital, which I think is at the core of what agencies need to &#8220;get&#8221; about digital. </p>
<p>Digital advertising gains much of the spotlight in the trade press, but that is because the trade press tends to look at digital from an advertising only perspective (which is understandable). However, the digital channel is far more than this &#8211; take a look at AIMIA&#8217;s digital services index to review the complete scope of digital (<a href="http://digitalservicesindex.com.au/" rel="nofollow">http://digitalservicesindex.com.au/</a>)</p>
<p>Yes, part of digital is advertising, however at the core of digital is business transformation, something that it is fair to say has been catalysed by digital as opposed to say TV or radio (DM has had its moments in this regard though!) Digital has redefined complete categories such as music and financial services, through business transformation.</p>
<p>A good digital agency, and indeed any agency that does digital, will look beyond advertising and help their brands change the way they do business using foresight and knowledge. Lynchy, you come at digital from am advertising angle, so I completely undertand your viewpoint, but the pie is far larger.</p>
<p>Years ago, interactive agencies were very, very good at helping brands adapt their businesses in order to keep pace with a transformed market. This is becoming a bit lost in the advertising rush &#8211; even though most promotions are simply band aid fixes that fail to address very real business problems. No matter how many promotions Sony Music for example push out the door through their agencies, it isn&#8217;t going to solve their fundamental market problem. This is where good digital agencies used to step in. Some still do. So do some ad agencies. But not often enough.  Simply throwing marketing dollars at promotions doesn&#8217;t change the fact that for many brands, and industries, the ambulance is at the door. I can guarantee that brands that take this approach to a changing market are finding that the law of diminishing returns holds true. Better to jump first than be pushed.</p>
<p>I am an advocate of how important creative is in communicating with consumers (creative tends to be vastly undervalued, but that is another conversation). That said, it takes more than great creative, great copy, or great promotions to enable success in the digital channel. Taking care of these only addresses a very small part of what can be achieved. As an industry, the digital industry needs to refocus, and help brands redefine the way they do business, not simply focus on advertising to get a short termm hit of success.</p>
<p>Unfortunately at Cannes or AWARD there is no category for best use of digital to transform a business, yet this is the crux of what digital is all about. And this is understandable, since they are advertising driven award shows; but since they ignore the core of the digital channel, which is business change. So  citing how many awards an agency wins at these isn&#8217;t a good measure of success &#8211; but they are a great measure of digital advertising, which is different.</p>
<p>This lack of understanding regarding using the digital channel to transform a category has been what has held ad agencies back in the past, as they have been driven by advertising (read media spend). This is also changing. The gap between digital agencies and ad agencies is narrowing in terms of core competencies (though some would argue this is because the bar has been lowered, which may be something that Simon alluded to).</p>
<p>A lot of great digital strategists are actually very good at business modelling as opposed to creating online promotions &#8211; and many do both. But I would suggest that if your digital strategist isn&#8217;t helping you remodel the way you do business, then look elsewhere.</p>
<p>So when you intimate that there is nothing much to get apart from &#8220;coming up with powerful, relevant ideas that engage the target market via the digital medium,&#8221; this highlights the problem &#8211; it not just about engaging the market, it is about changing the market itself.</p>
<p>End of Soapbox 2.0!</p>
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		<title>By: Lynchy</title>
		<link>http://mumbrella.com.au/guest-posting-interactive-agencies-need-to-stop-being-digital-agencies-3612#comment-3230</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynchy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 07:30:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mumbrella.com.au/?p=3612#comment-3230</guid>
		<description>Simon,

I suspect Singo&#039;s did not enter awards all those years because it would have been in vain. Most of their work was mediocre and relied on massive media spend to get any cut-through. (Their most memorable campaign - Qantas &#039;I still Call Australia home&#039; - was originated by Mojo). 

As Bernbach said: &quot;Nobody counts the number of ads you run; they just remember the impression you make.&quot;  He also said: &quot;Properly practiced creativity can make one ad do the work of ten.&quot;

Some of the most creatively awarded work for Australia&#039;s biggest marketers has also been the most effective. Check the winners of the AFA Effectiveness Awards (now the Effies) since 1992. In that first year Campaign Brief published a cover story headed &#039;Creative = Effective&#039;, which proved that the two were not mutually exclusive.

Peter,

Most of the good agency creatives I know get digital, just like they get any other medium. They are also creating great ideas in the digital space, helped by the in-house agency boffins who execute those ideas. I actually think there&#039;s nothing much to get, apart from the bleeding obvious - which is coming up with powerful, relevant ideas that engage the target market via the digital medium. As has been the case with any combination of media since the ad caper began.

Sorry to quote Bill again, but he&#039;s the fountain of all ad wisdom as far as I&#039;m concerned: &quot;Adapt your techniques to an idea, not an idea to your techniques.&quot;

He also said: &quot;To keep your ads fresh you&#039;ve got to keep yourself fresh. Live in the current idiom and you will create in it. If you follow and enjoy and are excited by the new trails in art, in writing, in industry, in personal relationships... whatever you do will naturally be of today.&quot;

Good advice for those creatives still living in the 80s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Simon,</p>
<p>I suspect Singo&#8217;s did not enter awards all those years because it would have been in vain. Most of their work was mediocre and relied on massive media spend to get any cut-through. (Their most memorable campaign &#8211; Qantas &#8216;I still Call Australia home&#8217; &#8211; was originated by Mojo). </p>
<p>As Bernbach said: &#8220;Nobody counts the number of ads you run; they just remember the impression you make.&#8221;  He also said: &#8220;Properly practiced creativity can make one ad do the work of ten.&#8221;</p>
<p>Some of the most creatively awarded work for Australia&#8217;s biggest marketers has also been the most effective. Check the winners of the AFA Effectiveness Awards (now the Effies) since 1992. In that first year Campaign Brief published a cover story headed &#8216;Creative = Effective&#8217;, which proved that the two were not mutually exclusive.</p>
<p>Peter,</p>
<p>Most of the good agency creatives I know get digital, just like they get any other medium. They are also creating great ideas in the digital space, helped by the in-house agency boffins who execute those ideas. I actually think there&#8217;s nothing much to get, apart from the bleeding obvious &#8211; which is coming up with powerful, relevant ideas that engage the target market via the digital medium. As has been the case with any combination of media since the ad caper began.</p>
<p>Sorry to quote Bill again, but he&#8217;s the fountain of all ad wisdom as far as I&#8217;m concerned: &#8220;Adapt your techniques to an idea, not an idea to your techniques.&#8221;</p>
<p>He also said: &#8220;To keep your ads fresh you&#8217;ve got to keep yourself fresh. Live in the current idiom and you will create in it. If you follow and enjoy and are excited by the new trails in art, in writing, in industry, in personal relationships&#8230; whatever you do will naturally be of today.&#8221;</p>
<p>Good advice for those creatives still living in the 80s.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://mumbrella.com.au/guest-posting-interactive-agencies-need-to-stop-being-digital-agencies-3612#comment-3220</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 04:57:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mumbrella.com.au/?p=3612#comment-3220</guid>
		<description>I agree one entry can make you world famous - however volume does still matter, statistically speaking. 

In terms of your questions:

Q: Can you (or anyone else) tell us which Australian companies do get it? And why?
A: It&#039;s just my opinion, and my opinion isn&#039;t necessarily right (or even close to), so no. However nice try! That said, most do, but it isn&#039;t dependent on size, or awards.

Q: And, just for the traditional ad guys and gals, what is there to get?
A: I&#039;m not sure if this is meant to be bait, however I will have a small nibble. There are still quotes bandied about by &quot;traditional&quot; (a term I really don&#039;t like)  ad guys and gals saying that digital is &quot;just another channel.&quot; If this really is the sentiment, then those people don&#039;t &quot;get&quot; digital.  As I wrote previously, both full service and specialist digital agencies are capable of poor strategic thinking and execution: what matters most is the people involved, not the label that they work under.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree one entry can make you world famous &#8211; however volume does still matter, statistically speaking. </p>
<p>In terms of your questions:</p>
<p>Q: Can you (or anyone else) tell us which Australian companies do get it? And why?<br />
A: It&#8217;s just my opinion, and my opinion isn&#8217;t necessarily right (or even close to), so no. However nice try! That said, most do, but it isn&#8217;t dependent on size, or awards.</p>
<p>Q: And, just for the traditional ad guys and gals, what is there to get?<br />
A: I&#8217;m not sure if this is meant to be bait, however I will have a small nibble. There are still quotes bandied about by &#8220;traditional&#8221; (a term I really don&#8217;t like)  ad guys and gals saying that digital is &#8220;just another channel.&#8221; If this really is the sentiment, then those people don&#8217;t &#8220;get&#8221; digital.  As I wrote previously, both full service and specialist digital agencies are capable of poor strategic thinking and execution: what matters most is the people involved, not the label that they work under.</p>
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		<title>By: Ashley Ringrose</title>
		<link>http://mumbrella.com.au/guest-posting-interactive-agencies-need-to-stop-being-digital-agencies-3612#comment-3219</link>
		<dc:creator>Ashley Ringrose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 04:57:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mumbrella.com.au/?p=3612#comment-3219</guid>
		<description>See you at Creative Social tonight Simon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See you at Creative Social tonight Simon.</p>
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		<title>By: Simon</title>
		<link>http://mumbrella.com.au/guest-posting-interactive-agencies-need-to-stop-being-digital-agencies-3612#comment-3218</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 04:47:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mumbrella.com.au/?p=3612#comment-3218</guid>
		<description>I think it was Singletons that refused to enter awards and it might be myth and legend but I gather it was to keep the focus on the client and not on the award.  I&#039;ve done some charity work and met agencies looking for pro bono with no client control in order to create an award winning ad.  

Anyway I think I was trying to make the point that the interactive industry should focus on the commercial outcomes of our work.  I believe it&#039;s our only way to create a respected value proposition for a long term profitable industry.

Having awards as part of a business strategy is a lottery not a strategy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it was Singletons that refused to enter awards and it might be myth and legend but I gather it was to keep the focus on the client and not on the award.  I&#8217;ve done some charity work and met agencies looking for pro bono with no client control in order to create an award winning ad.  </p>
<p>Anyway I think I was trying to make the point that the interactive industry should focus on the commercial outcomes of our work.  I believe it&#8217;s our only way to create a respected value proposition for a long term profitable industry.</p>
<p>Having awards as part of a business strategy is a lottery not a strategy.</p>
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		<title>By: Lynchy</title>
		<link>http://mumbrella.com.au/guest-posting-interactive-agencies-need-to-stop-being-digital-agencies-3612#comment-3215</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynchy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 02:22:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mumbrella.com.au/?p=3612#comment-3215</guid>
		<description>Peter, 

One entry with a great idea from the smallest interactive shop can make you world famous, you don&#039;t need to sell the house. Farfar in Sweden, with only a handful of staff, won the Cannes Cyber Grand Prix in 2001. (Droga5, New York was also only a handful of people when they won the Cannes Cyber Grand Prix in 2006). 

Any small interactive shop in Australia can do likewise, if they have a great idea. Looking at entries over the years, most of the best interactive shops, large and small, enter AWARD.

Anyway, I&#039;m interested in your point 4. Some ad agencies don’t get the digital channel, but neither do some digital agencies.

Can you (or anyone else) tell us which Australian companies do get it? And why?
And, just for the traditional ad guys and gals, what is there to get?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter, </p>
<p>One entry with a great idea from the smallest interactive shop can make you world famous, you don&#8217;t need to sell the house. Farfar in Sweden, with only a handful of staff, won the Cannes Cyber Grand Prix in 2001. (Droga5, New York was also only a handful of people when they won the Cannes Cyber Grand Prix in 2006). </p>
<p>Any small interactive shop in Australia can do likewise, if they have a great idea. Looking at entries over the years, most of the best interactive shops, large and small, enter AWARD.</p>
<p>Anyway, I&#8217;m interested in your point 4. Some ad agencies don’t get the digital channel, but neither do some digital agencies.</p>
<p>Can you (or anyone else) tell us which Australian companies do get it? And why?<br />
And, just for the traditional ad guys and gals, what is there to get?</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://mumbrella.com.au/guest-posting-interactive-agencies-need-to-stop-being-digital-agencies-3612#comment-3212</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 23:42:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mumbrella.com.au/?p=3612#comment-3212</guid>
		<description>Hi Lynchy

Interesting post, but perhaps some full disclosure is required as to why much of the &quot;best and most awarded&quot; digital work is being created by networks, such as:

1. What was the dollar spend by digital agencies entering award shows when compared to ad agencies and networks? I wouldn&#039;t be surprised if the ratio was 1:100. This would then be reflected in awards won (sad but true).

2. I am not sure that citing AWARD as an indicator of regional digital award credentials was a great choice. There are other regional awards out there in the digital space that have more history and more entries. However that is a whole other, fairly irrelevant debate in the scheme of things..

3. With all the aquisition activity, there simply aren&#039;t many independent digital agencies left!

4. Some ad agencies don&#039;t get the digital channel, but neither do some digital agencies.

5. They are just awards. Important as they are, perhaps the best work should be solely based on achieving client expectations, whether that be tangible or intangible KPIs. Possibly a survey could be undertaken on the brands that have worked with both specialist digital agencies and the generalists, and see what the clients actually think about their own experiences.

People need to get over this whole specialist v generalist issue regardless of whether it is digital, DM, PR etc etc. Both do great work, both do poor work. What matters is the people and the work: the picture is more important than the frame.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Lynchy</p>
<p>Interesting post, but perhaps some full disclosure is required as to why much of the &#8220;best and most awarded&#8221; digital work is being created by networks, such as:</p>
<p>1. What was the dollar spend by digital agencies entering award shows when compared to ad agencies and networks? I wouldn&#8217;t be surprised if the ratio was 1:100. This would then be reflected in awards won (sad but true).</p>
<p>2. I am not sure that citing AWARD as an indicator of regional digital award credentials was a great choice. There are other regional awards out there in the digital space that have more history and more entries. However that is a whole other, fairly irrelevant debate in the scheme of things..</p>
<p>3. With all the aquisition activity, there simply aren&#8217;t many independent digital agencies left!</p>
<p>4. Some ad agencies don&#8217;t get the digital channel, but neither do some digital agencies.</p>
<p>5. They are just awards. Important as they are, perhaps the best work should be solely based on achieving client expectations, whether that be tangible or intangible KPIs. Possibly a survey could be undertaken on the brands that have worked with both specialist digital agencies and the generalists, and see what the clients actually think about their own experiences.</p>
<p>People need to get over this whole specialist v generalist issue regardless of whether it is digital, DM, PR etc etc. Both do great work, both do poor work. What matters is the people and the work: the picture is more important than the frame.</p>
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		<title>By: mUmBRELLA: Everything under Australia’s media and marketing umbrella &#171; The Culture Mind</title>
		<link>http://mumbrella.com.au/guest-posting-interactive-agencies-need-to-stop-being-digital-agencies-3612#comment-3201</link>
		<dc:creator>mUmBRELLA: Everything under Australia’s media and marketing umbrella &#171; The Culture Mind</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 09:13:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mumbrella.com.au/?p=3612#comment-3201</guid>
		<description>[...] Guest post: Interactive agencies need to stop being advertising agencies Simon van Wyk, MD of HotHouse, is over advertising agencies [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Guest post: Interactive agencies need to stop being advertising agencies Simon van Wyk, MD of HotHouse, is over advertising agencies [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Lynchy</title>
		<link>http://mumbrella.com.au/guest-posting-interactive-agencies-need-to-stop-being-digital-agencies-3612#comment-3200</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynchy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 08:13:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mumbrella.com.au/?p=3612#comment-3200</guid>
		<description>While some great work is being done by independents, much of the best and most awarded interactive and digital work in the world is created by ad agencies and subsidiaries of agency networks as part of their integrated offering. The following agencies won Gold Cyber Lions in the last three years: BBDO New York (HBO &#039;Voyeur&#039;), Crispin Porter + Bogusky, Miami + Boulder (Burger King &#039;Whopper Freakout&#039; and Volkswagen &#039;GTi&#039;), R/GA New York - owned by Interpublic (Nike+), TBWA\Media Arts Lab, LA (Apple), Taxi Canada (Mini and Dermtek), Glue London - owned by Aegis (Mini Clubman), FarFar, Sweden - also owned by Aegis subsidiary Isobar (Diesel &#039;15mg of fame&#039;), Forsman &amp; Bodenfors, Stockholm (Ikea &#039;Beds&#039;), Droga5, New York (Marc Ecko &#039;Still Free&#039;), Ogilvy &amp; Mather, Toronto (Dove &#039;Evolution&#039;), Goodby Silverstein &amp; Partners, San Francisco (Milk), BBH London (Barnardo&#039;s &#039;F**K Off&#039;), BBH New York (Smirnoff &#039;Raw Tea&#039;), McCann San Francisco (Microsoft &#039;Clearification&#039;), Publicis &amp; Hal Riney, San Francisco (AAA Insurance) and Tribal DDB New York (Philips &#039;Bodygroom&#039;). There are many more....

On a regional level - while searching in vain for awards for Hothouse - last year the following agencies won Silver Pencils at AWARD in Interactive: Colenso BBDO Auckland (NZ Book Council &#039;Read a book at work&#039;), Clemenger BBDO, Wellington (LTNZ), Clemenger BBDO Sydney (Sega &#039;Offset the Evil&#039;) and Host Sydney (Air New Zealand). The only purely interactive agency to win Silver was Visual Jazz - incidentally, owned by Mitchell Group - for Defence Force Recruiting. 

The following agencies won Bronze Pencils last year: Saatchi &amp; Saatchi New Zealand (Toyota &#039;Hilux Motion&#039;), Publicis Mojo, Auckland (Nature&#039;s Fresh), Ogilvy New Zealand (Coca-Cola Amatil), JWT New Zealand (Ford Mondeo &#039;Balloons&#039;), Consortium Auckland (42 Below), Lowe Sydney (MTV &#039;Welcome Snoop&#039; and Genesis Energy), Host Sydney (Air New Zealand), Clemenger BBDO Sydney (Sega &#039;Offset the Evil&#039;), Grey Melbourne (TAC &#039;Pictures of You&#039;), Saatchi &amp; Saatchi Australia (United Nations &#039;UN Voices Project&#039;), RMG Connect - part of the STW group (Kellogg &#039;Walk the Great Wall&#039;), and Naked Communications - owned by Photon (Sprite &#039;Thirst for Truth&#039;).

In fact, Soap Creative (Bronze for Foxtel and Bronze for 20th Century Fox) was the only Aussie independent to win metal at AWARD last year. 

Perhaps this thread should have a new headline: 
Interactive agencies need to stop being beaten by advertising agencies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While some great work is being done by independents, much of the best and most awarded interactive and digital work in the world is created by ad agencies and subsidiaries of agency networks as part of their integrated offering. The following agencies won Gold Cyber Lions in the last three years: BBDO New York (HBO &#8216;Voyeur&#8217;), Crispin Porter + Bogusky, Miami + Boulder (Burger King &#8216;Whopper Freakout&#8217; and Volkswagen &#8216;GTi&#8217;), R/GA New York &#8211; owned by Interpublic (Nike+), TBWA\Media Arts Lab, LA (Apple), Taxi Canada (Mini and Dermtek), Glue London &#8211; owned by Aegis (Mini Clubman), FarFar, Sweden &#8211; also owned by Aegis subsidiary Isobar (Diesel &#8217;15mg of fame&#8217;), Forsman &amp; Bodenfors, Stockholm (Ikea &#8216;Beds&#8217;), Droga5, New York (Marc Ecko &#8216;Still Free&#8217;), Ogilvy &amp; Mather, Toronto (Dove &#8216;Evolution&#8217;), Goodby Silverstein &amp; Partners, San Francisco (Milk), BBH London (Barnardo&#8217;s &#8216;F**K Off&#8217;), BBH New York (Smirnoff &#8216;Raw Tea&#8217;), McCann San Francisco (Microsoft &#8216;Clearification&#8217;), Publicis &amp; Hal Riney, San Francisco (AAA Insurance) and Tribal DDB New York (Philips &#8216;Bodygroom&#8217;). There are many more&#8230;.</p>
<p>On a regional level &#8211; while searching in vain for awards for Hothouse &#8211; last year the following agencies won Silver Pencils at AWARD in Interactive: Colenso BBDO Auckland (NZ Book Council &#8216;Read a book at work&#8217;), Clemenger BBDO, Wellington (LTNZ), Clemenger BBDO Sydney (Sega &#8216;Offset the Evil&#8217;) and Host Sydney (Air New Zealand). The only purely interactive agency to win Silver was Visual Jazz &#8211; incidentally, owned by Mitchell Group &#8211; for Defence Force Recruiting. </p>
<p>The following agencies won Bronze Pencils last year: Saatchi &amp; Saatchi New Zealand (Toyota &#8216;Hilux Motion&#8217;), Publicis Mojo, Auckland (Nature&#8217;s Fresh), Ogilvy New Zealand (Coca-Cola Amatil), JWT New Zealand (Ford Mondeo &#8216;Balloons&#8217;), Consortium Auckland (42 Below), Lowe Sydney (MTV &#8216;Welcome Snoop&#8217; and Genesis Energy), Host Sydney (Air New Zealand), Clemenger BBDO Sydney (Sega &#8216;Offset the Evil&#8217;), Grey Melbourne (TAC &#8216;Pictures of You&#8217;), Saatchi &amp; Saatchi Australia (United Nations &#8216;UN Voices Project&#8217;), RMG Connect &#8211; part of the STW group (Kellogg &#8216;Walk the Great Wall&#8217;), and Naked Communications &#8211; owned by Photon (Sprite &#8216;Thirst for Truth&#8217;).</p>
<p>In fact, Soap Creative (Bronze for Foxtel and Bronze for 20th Century Fox) was the only Aussie independent to win metal at AWARD last year. </p>
<p>Perhaps this thread should have a new headline:<br />
Interactive agencies need to stop being beaten by advertising agencies.</p>
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