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	<title>Comments on: IBM digital marketing boss: Haymarket editor is an idiot, industry laughs at Australia&#8217;s tech journalism and I&#8217;ve got a migraine</title>
	<atom:link href="http://mumbrella.com.au/ibm-digital-marketing-boss-haymarket-editor-is-an-idiot-industry-laughs-at-australias-tech-journalism-and-ive-got-a-migraine-17802/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://mumbrella.com.au/ibm-digital-marketing-boss-haymarket-editor-is-an-idiot-industry-laughs-at-australias-tech-journalism-and-ive-got-a-migraine-17802</link>
	<description>Everything under Australia’s media, marketing &#38; entertainment umbrella</description>
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		<title>By: Jakomi Mathews</title>
		<link>http://mumbrella.com.au/ibm-digital-marketing-boss-haymarket-editor-is-an-idiot-industry-laughs-at-australias-tech-journalism-and-ive-got-a-migraine-17802#comment-32393</link>
		<dc:creator>Jakomi Mathews</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2010 08:19:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mumbrella.com.au/?p=17802#comment-32393</guid>
		<description>The quality of journalism online has gone down as a direct result of media chasing traffic instead of thinking about their core audience. As recently noted back in late 2009 at a paidcontent conference chasing SEO &amp; SEM traffic at the expense of your media brands core audience values is a recipe for shite!

Online journalism needs to think about readers and creating destinations where their audience wants to visit and dwell for a sizeable period of time.

All constantly chasing SEO and SEM traffic does is drive down advertising rates and all the while in the process drive your core audience away instead of drawing them in.

I started  a blog www.themusicvoid.com back in April 2008 as a rant about what was wrong with the music business and its engagement with technology. Since then we have spun two other complimentary businesses out of that...I believe this is primarily because the blog always stayed true to research, analysis and opinion. Those are the key elements of journalism. As soon as you compromise those journalistic values you are on a slippery slope to oblivion as a media source!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The quality of journalism online has gone down as a direct result of media chasing traffic instead of thinking about their core audience. As recently noted back in late 2009 at a paidcontent conference chasing SEO &amp; SEM traffic at the expense of your media brands core audience values is a recipe for shite!</p>
<p>Online journalism needs to think about readers and creating destinations where their audience wants to visit and dwell for a sizeable period of time.</p>
<p>All constantly chasing SEO and SEM traffic does is drive down advertising rates and all the while in the process drive your core audience away instead of drawing them in.</p>
<p>I started  a blog <a href="http://www.themusicvoid.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.themusicvoid.com</a> back in April 2008 as a rant about what was wrong with the music business and its engagement with technology. Since then we have spun two other complimentary businesses out of that&#8230;I believe this is primarily because the blog always stayed true to research, analysis and opinion. Those are the key elements of journalism. As soon as you compromise those journalistic values you are on a slippery slope to oblivion as a media source!</p>
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		<title>By: Alice</title>
		<link>http://mumbrella.com.au/ibm-digital-marketing-boss-haymarket-editor-is-an-idiot-industry-laughs-at-australias-tech-journalism-and-ive-got-a-migraine-17802#comment-31146</link>
		<dc:creator>Alice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 04:12:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mumbrella.com.au/?p=17802#comment-31146</guid>
		<description>While the general state of Australian journalism is pretty grim (have you ever counted the grammatical errors and incorrect punctuation in any given mainstream publication?), I&#039;ve got to commend the technology media for maintaining a higher standard. Having worked with the media here, in Europe, and the US, I&#039;d say the Aussie tech journalists are the only ones on par with their overseas counterparts in terms of industry knowledge, relevant commentary, and plain old writing skills. You couldn&#039;t really make the same comparison between local and international journalists covering most other sectors without Australia coming up short - not to mention in need of a good style guide.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While the general state of Australian journalism is pretty grim (have you ever counted the grammatical errors and incorrect punctuation in any given mainstream publication?), I&#8217;ve got to commend the technology media for maintaining a higher standard. Having worked with the media here, in Europe, and the US, I&#8217;d say the Aussie tech journalists are the only ones on par with their overseas counterparts in terms of industry knowledge, relevant commentary, and plain old writing skills. You couldn&#8217;t really make the same comparison between local and international journalists covering most other sectors without Australia coming up short &#8211; not to mention in need of a good style guide.</p>
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		<title>By: Caesar Wong</title>
		<link>http://mumbrella.com.au/ibm-digital-marketing-boss-haymarket-editor-is-an-idiot-industry-laughs-at-australias-tech-journalism-and-ive-got-a-migraine-17802#comment-30543</link>
		<dc:creator>Caesar Wong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 04:34:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mumbrella.com.au/?p=17802#comment-30543</guid>
		<description>Tim, I&#039;d have to be a hypocrite to criticise the conversation while participating in it :-)

My comment was really a shot at the &quot;quick and dirty analysis&quot; that has crept into journalism as a way to incite participation (by taking sides, for example), thereby increasing engagement, leading to greater exposure and hopefully more sales. Is this a bad thing from your side of the fence? Surely not. But it doesn&#039;t bode well for the purity of journalistic endeavour. It&#039;s like selling your soul :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim, I&#8217;d have to be a hypocrite to criticise the conversation while participating in it <img src='http://mumbrella.com.au/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>My comment was really a shot at the &#8220;quick and dirty analysis&#8221; that has crept into journalism as a way to incite participation (by taking sides, for example), thereby increasing engagement, leading to greater exposure and hopefully more sales. Is this a bad thing from your side of the fence? Surely not. But it doesn&#8217;t bode well for the purity of journalistic endeavour. It&#8217;s like selling your soul <img src='http://mumbrella.com.au/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: mumbrella</title>
		<link>http://mumbrella.com.au/ibm-digital-marketing-boss-haymarket-editor-is-an-idiot-industry-laughs-at-australias-tech-journalism-and-ive-got-a-migraine-17802#comment-30536</link>
		<dc:creator>mumbrella</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 04:14:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mumbrella.com.au/?p=17802#comment-30536</guid>
		<description>Hi Caesar,

Without necessarily addressing your main point, unless I misunderstand your comment, I get the impression that you think something which &quot;generates discussion&quot; is a bad thing.

I&#039;m not sure I agree with that. I&#039;d fully concede that the best thing about this article isn&#039;t original journalism (all that took was having a couple of contacts who pointed it out while it was raging). It was the converation that followed - the state of journalism/ PR-journo relationships/ the right to say what you think (or not) on Twitter.

That&#039;s a good conversation that was generated by a simple story. I&#039;m not sure it that&#039;s a bad thing. Indeed, isn&#039;t one journalistic path for the future going to be bringing interesting people together and simply starting a conversation? 

Cheers,

Tim - Mumbrella</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Caesar,</p>
<p>Without necessarily addressing your main point, unless I misunderstand your comment, I get the impression that you think something which &#8220;generates discussion&#8221; is a bad thing.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure I agree with that. I&#8217;d fully concede that the best thing about this article isn&#8217;t original journalism (all that took was having a couple of contacts who pointed it out while it was raging). It was the converation that followed &#8211; the state of journalism/ PR-journo relationships/ the right to say what you think (or not) on Twitter.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s a good conversation that was generated by a simple story. I&#8217;m not sure it that&#8217;s a bad thing. Indeed, isn&#8217;t one journalistic path for the future going to be bringing interesting people together and simply starting a conversation? </p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<p>Tim &#8211; Mumbrella</p>
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		<title>By: Caesar Wong</title>
		<link>http://mumbrella.com.au/ibm-digital-marketing-boss-haymarket-editor-is-an-idiot-industry-laughs-at-australias-tech-journalism-and-ive-got-a-migraine-17802#comment-30529</link>
		<dc:creator>Caesar Wong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 03:52:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mumbrella.com.au/?p=17802#comment-30529</guid>
		<description>Does nobody else see the irony about this story being considered newsworthy, presented in the context of a discussion about the declining quality of journalism?

I do agree that the quality of journalism in Australia is on the decline due to financial pressures - and possibly even as a result of Social Media&#039;s encroachment into the need in peoples&#039; lives for news, once exclusively fulfilled by traditional media.

Let me be clear to the point of stating the obvious: I believe quality journalism to be where the journalist gathers all the facts relating to a specific topic (including those obscured from plain sight - which in theory is the key differentiating factor of journalism vs... blogging, say), and communicates all facets of that topic impartially to allow the reader to make an informed opinion. Per above, most &quot;journalism&quot; these days simply involves repeating plainly obvious and widely available facts.

Therefore while I agree with Martin&#039;s assertion about the lack of quality journalism in Australia, I disagree with his reasoning that there is no &quot;judgement and analysis&quot;. In fact I&#039;d go so far as to say that there&#039;s too much of it, and that the disappointing thing is that it&#039;s delivered &quot;Judge Judy&quot; style - picking at the low-hanging fruit and completely lacking in depth. Or maybe that&#039;s the intent these days, so that it generates discussion and increases &quot;buzz&quot; and &quot;engagement&quot;.

Sadly, this introduces the notion that Australia&#039;s failings are two-fold, poor journalism -and- poor analytical writing (whatever form that might take).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does nobody else see the irony about this story being considered newsworthy, presented in the context of a discussion about the declining quality of journalism?</p>
<p>I do agree that the quality of journalism in Australia is on the decline due to financial pressures &#8211; and possibly even as a result of Social Media&#8217;s encroachment into the need in peoples&#8217; lives for news, once exclusively fulfilled by traditional media.</p>
<p>Let me be clear to the point of stating the obvious: I believe quality journalism to be where the journalist gathers all the facts relating to a specific topic (including those obscured from plain sight &#8211; which in theory is the key differentiating factor of journalism vs&#8230; blogging, say), and communicates all facets of that topic impartially to allow the reader to make an informed opinion. Per above, most &#8220;journalism&#8221; these days simply involves repeating plainly obvious and widely available facts.</p>
<p>Therefore while I agree with Martin&#8217;s assertion about the lack of quality journalism in Australia, I disagree with his reasoning that there is no &#8220;judgement and analysis&#8221;. In fact I&#8217;d go so far as to say that there&#8217;s too much of it, and that the disappointing thing is that it&#8217;s delivered &#8220;Judge Judy&#8221; style &#8211; picking at the low-hanging fruit and completely lacking in depth. Or maybe that&#8217;s the intent these days, so that it generates discussion and increases &#8220;buzz&#8221; and &#8220;engagement&#8221;.</p>
<p>Sadly, this introduces the notion that Australia&#8217;s failings are two-fold, poor journalism -and- poor analytical writing (whatever form that might take).</p>
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		<title>By: Simon Sharwood</title>
		<link>http://mumbrella.com.au/ibm-digital-marketing-boss-haymarket-editor-is-an-idiot-industry-laughs-at-australias-tech-journalism-and-ive-got-a-migraine-17802#comment-30449</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon Sharwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:11:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mumbrella.com.au/?p=17802#comment-30449</guid>
		<description>Oh the irony.
IBM released a product this week in an IT niche I track. The company  seems to have briefed a local analyst on it but I have been told the company held back on making the announcement official so that another, more significant,  product launch would get all the attention.
FWIW, the &quot;more significant&quot;  product launch had a lavish launch overseas, but no discernible outreach to media in Australia ... or none I was made aware of. 
Just how is the IT media supposed to provide meaningful analysis when the company won&#039;t even communicate its wares to media?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh the irony.<br />
IBM released a product this week in an IT niche I track. The company  seems to have briefed a local analyst on it but I have been told the company held back on making the announcement official so that another, more significant,  product launch would get all the attention.<br />
FWIW, the &#8220;more significant&#8221;  product launch had a lavish launch overseas, but no discernible outreach to media in Australia &#8230; or none I was made aware of.<br />
Just how is the IT media supposed to provide meaningful analysis when the company won&#8217;t even communicate its wares to media?</p>
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		<title>By: mumbrella</title>
		<link>http://mumbrella.com.au/ibm-digital-marketing-boss-haymarket-editor-is-an-idiot-industry-laughs-at-australias-tech-journalism-and-ive-got-a-migraine-17802#comment-30445</link>
		<dc:creator>mumbrella</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:51:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mumbrella.com.au/?p=17802#comment-30445</guid>
		<description>Got an allegiance to declare there, Sir Churnalism?

Cheers,

Tim - Mumbrella</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Got an allegiance to declare there, Sir Churnalism?</p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<p>Tim &#8211; Mumbrella</p>
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		<title>By: Sir Churnalism</title>
		<link>http://mumbrella.com.au/ibm-digital-marketing-boss-haymarket-editor-is-an-idiot-industry-laughs-at-australias-tech-journalism-and-ive-got-a-migraine-17802#comment-30429</link>
		<dc:creator>Sir Churnalism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:59:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mumbrella.com.au/?p=17802#comment-30429</guid>
		<description>Thank god Renai is here is save journalism with his excellent Delimiter service.

Just think if he didn&#039;t start delimiter - investigative journalism would be dead and we&#039;d be stuck reading his pathetic four paragraph stories which were in fact nothing more than follow-ups from his competitors&#039; scoops.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank god Renai is here is save journalism with his excellent Delimiter service.</p>
<p>Just think if he didn&#8217;t start delimiter &#8211; investigative journalism would be dead and we&#8217;d be stuck reading his pathetic four paragraph stories which were in fact nothing more than follow-ups from his competitors&#8217; scoops.</p>
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		<title>By: Geoff Hoddinott</title>
		<link>http://mumbrella.com.au/ibm-digital-marketing-boss-haymarket-editor-is-an-idiot-industry-laughs-at-australias-tech-journalism-and-ive-got-a-migraine-17802#comment-30418</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff Hoddinott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 08:22:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mumbrella.com.au/?p=17802#comment-30418</guid>
		<description>Yellowbelly: it has been surveyed and reported for a number of years that over 70% of editorial content across most media verticals can be attributed to internal and external PR folk... &quot;poor&quot; or not.  Renai is 100% correct in his comments.  Most publishing houses I deal with are staff-poor, making it very hard for investigative pieces or in-depth industry articles to be researched, compiled and prepared.  As for freelancers... you are a valued resource for both PR and publishers, providing a totally different &#039;take&#039; and value-add to the finished product of publishing.  Can we leave it there?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yellowbelly: it has been surveyed and reported for a number of years that over 70% of editorial content across most media verticals can be attributed to internal and external PR folk&#8230; &#8220;poor&#8221; or not.  Renai is 100% correct in his comments.  Most publishing houses I deal with are staff-poor, making it very hard for investigative pieces or in-depth industry articles to be researched, compiled and prepared.  As for freelancers&#8230; you are a valued resource for both PR and publishers, providing a totally different &#8216;take&#8217; and value-add to the finished product of publishing.  Can we leave it there?</p>
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		<title>By: Yellowbelly</title>
		<link>http://mumbrella.com.au/ibm-digital-marketing-boss-haymarket-editor-is-an-idiot-industry-laughs-at-australias-tech-journalism-and-ive-got-a-migraine-17802#comment-30415</link>
		<dc:creator>Yellowbelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 07:34:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mumbrella.com.au/?p=17802#comment-30415</guid>
		<description>@Tech journo&#039;s or your PR? 
Would you like the poor PR people to write your stories as well? If you are relying on PRs then I would question your journalistic credentials.

@Renai
That&#039;s complete bullocks. Press rewriting and coverage of commodity stories is exactly why publishing houses would pay Delimiter - to release the resources to do quality journalism, for a change. Paying you for freelance articles is another matter entirely.

@Liam
+1, well said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Tech journo&#8217;s or your PR?<br />
Would you like the poor PR people to write your stories as well? If you are relying on PRs then I would question your journalistic credentials.</p>
<p>@Renai<br />
That&#8217;s complete bullocks. Press rewriting and coverage of commodity stories is exactly why publishing houses would pay Delimiter &#8211; to release the resources to do quality journalism, for a change. Paying you for freelance articles is another matter entirely.</p>
<p>@Liam<br />
+1, well said.</p>
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		<title>By: The intern</title>
		<link>http://mumbrella.com.au/ibm-digital-marketing-boss-haymarket-editor-is-an-idiot-industry-laughs-at-australias-tech-journalism-and-ive-got-a-migraine-17802#comment-30394</link>
		<dc:creator>The intern</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 04:21:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mumbrella.com.au/?p=17802#comment-30394</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s all my fault. I&#039;m sorry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s all my fault. I&#8217;m sorry.</p>
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		<title>By: anon1</title>
		<link>http://mumbrella.com.au/ibm-digital-marketing-boss-haymarket-editor-is-an-idiot-industry-laughs-at-australias-tech-journalism-and-ive-got-a-migraine-17802#comment-30389</link>
		<dc:creator>anon1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 03:49:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mumbrella.com.au/?p=17802#comment-30389</guid>
		<description>Just to second everything that Liam Tung said.  Resources are so squeezed it&#039;s a miracle there isn&#039;t more blank paper and black screens getting published.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to second everything that Liam Tung said.  Resources are so squeezed it&#8217;s a miracle there isn&#8217;t more blank paper and black screens getting published.</p>
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		<title>By: Tech journo's or your PR?</title>
		<link>http://mumbrella.com.au/ibm-digital-marketing-boss-haymarket-editor-is-an-idiot-industry-laughs-at-australias-tech-journalism-and-ive-got-a-migraine-17802#comment-30384</link>
		<dc:creator>Tech journo's or your PR?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 02:05:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mumbrella.com.au/?p=17802#comment-30384</guid>
		<description>Its tough being a tech journo when the tech companies use useless PR agencies who fail to respond to the tech journo&#039;s requests on products for reviews, news and general articles, hence the last resort use of press releases.

If you lot in the tech industry want better tech journalism, then ensure your over-promising and under-delivering PR agency become best friends with the tech journo&#039;s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its tough being a tech journo when the tech companies use useless PR agencies who fail to respond to the tech journo&#8217;s requests on products for reviews, news and general articles, hence the last resort use of press releases.</p>
<p>If you lot in the tech industry want better tech journalism, then ensure your over-promising and under-delivering PR agency become best friends with the tech journo&#8217;s.</p>
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		<title>By: Liam Tung</title>
		<link>http://mumbrella.com.au/ibm-digital-marketing-boss-haymarket-editor-is-an-idiot-industry-laughs-at-australias-tech-journalism-and-ive-got-a-migraine-17802#comment-30381</link>
		<dc:creator>Liam Tung</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 22:42:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mumbrella.com.au/?p=17802#comment-30381</guid>
		<description>Crap journalism... The remarks about the quality of tech journalism applies to all fields, not just tech. How many times do you read an item from the general news sections of the dailies and smell the sweet stench of a press release? It happens everywhere. 

The entire media sector is going through fairly big changes at the moment, which impacts the investment and subsequently the time spent on researching unique stories.

I would like to see a list of the &#039;industry heavyweights&#039; that laugh at OZ tech media. Just out of interest. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Crap journalism&#8230; The remarks about the quality of tech journalism applies to all fields, not just tech. How many times do you read an item from the general news sections of the dailies and smell the sweet stench of a press release? It happens everywhere. </p>
<p>The entire media sector is going through fairly big changes at the moment, which impacts the investment and subsequently the time spent on researching unique stories.</p>
<p>I would like to see a list of the &#8216;industry heavyweights&#8217; that laugh at OZ tech media. Just out of interest. <img src='http://mumbrella.com.au/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Caroline D.</title>
		<link>http://mumbrella.com.au/ibm-digital-marketing-boss-haymarket-editor-is-an-idiot-industry-laughs-at-australias-tech-journalism-and-ive-got-a-migraine-17802#comment-30356</link>
		<dc:creator>Caroline D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 13:09:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mumbrella.com.au/?p=17802#comment-30356</guid>
		<description>I agree with others that tech journalism in Australia could be much better so Asher I think you need to step outside the bubble. There are far too many junior tech journo&#039;s simply publishing press releases or reposting and following other genuine tech sites and offering too little analysis, judgement &amp; thoughtful opinion.

Did you even read his comments from Twitter Asher? Reading Martin&#039;s comments he clearly said he wasn&#039;t talking about ibm or speaking for ibm and said he was making general comments. I didn&#039;t see any names or sites targeted? Its interesting that the headline also implies Martin picked the fight with Nate but if the sequence above is right then Nate fired the first personal salvo.

I&#039;m one of those who can&#039;t understand what all the fuss is about. Are we saying that people can&#039;t debate topics or express opinions on Twitter? I just took a quick look back through Martins tweets and I can&#039;t see any tweets on behalf of ibm so clearly its his own account. Did anyone else check that?

I say bring on the different opinions....just please keep them civil....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with others that tech journalism in Australia could be much better so Asher I think you need to step outside the bubble. There are far too many junior tech journo&#8217;s simply publishing press releases or reposting and following other genuine tech sites and offering too little analysis, judgement &amp; thoughtful opinion.</p>
<p>Did you even read his comments from Twitter Asher? Reading Martin&#8217;s comments he clearly said he wasn&#8217;t talking about ibm or speaking for ibm and said he was making general comments. I didn&#8217;t see any names or sites targeted? Its interesting that the headline also implies Martin picked the fight with Nate but if the sequence above is right then Nate fired the first personal salvo.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m one of those who can&#8217;t understand what all the fuss is about. Are we saying that people can&#8217;t debate topics or express opinions on Twitter? I just took a quick look back through Martins tweets and I can&#8217;t see any tweets on behalf of ibm so clearly its his own account. Did anyone else check that?</p>
<p>I say bring on the different opinions&#8230;.just please keep them civil&#8230;.</p>
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