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	<title>Comments on: If The Population&#8217;s demise means big social media agencies don&#8217;t work, there may still be room for small ones</title>
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	<link>http://mumbrella.com.au/if-the-populations-demise-means-big-social-media-agencies-dont-work-there-may-be-room-for-small-ones-13666</link>
	<description>Everything under Australia’s media, marketing &#38; entertainment umbrella</description>
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		<title>By: aplet</title>
		<link>http://mumbrella.com.au/if-the-populations-demise-means-big-social-media-agencies-dont-work-there-may-be-room-for-small-ones-13666#comment-24264</link>
		<dc:creator>aplet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Dec 2009 05:01:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mumbrella.com.au/?p=13666#comment-24264</guid>
		<description>Anyone here from Agency Land, raise your hand. Now keep it raised if you&#039;re billings haven&#039;t decreased in the last 18 months.

That&#039;s right people - there was a little thing called the Global Financial Crisis that meant that marketers have reduced their budgets, and consequently a lot of agencies have been doing it tough. 

As a new agency, The Population were up against it during this economic period. There fate isn&#039;t a result of agency structure, creative or strategic capability or focus on a niche. I think it is because the world very nearly went into depression! A victim of timing!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anyone here from Agency Land, raise your hand. Now keep it raised if you&#8217;re billings haven&#8217;t decreased in the last 18 months.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s right people &#8211; there was a little thing called the Global Financial Crisis that meant that marketers have reduced their budgets, and consequently a lot of agencies have been doing it tough. </p>
<p>As a new agency, The Population were up against it during this economic period. There fate isn&#8217;t a result of agency structure, creative or strategic capability or focus on a niche. I think it is because the world very nearly went into depression! A victim of timing!</p>
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		<title>By: echo echo</title>
		<link>http://mumbrella.com.au/if-the-populations-demise-means-big-social-media-agencies-dont-work-there-may-be-room-for-small-ones-13666#comment-23664</link>
		<dc:creator>echo echo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 22:44:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mumbrella.com.au/?p=13666#comment-23664</guid>
		<description>so The Population say they are integrating then 20 different people all say in a slightly different way that the right model for social media agencies is fully integrated. echo echo echo

Matt - your tone continues to reinforce your reputation...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>so The Population say they are integrating then 20 different people all say in a slightly different way that the right model for social media agencies is fully integrated. echo echo echo</p>
<p>Matt &#8211; your tone continues to reinforce your reputation&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://mumbrella.com.au/if-the-populations-demise-means-big-social-media-agencies-dont-work-there-may-be-room-for-small-ones-13666#comment-23557</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 09:02:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mumbrella.com.au/?p=13666#comment-23557</guid>
		<description>Having a blog and tweeting =  Social Media Guru, cleary not, The Population RIP</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having a blog and tweeting =  Social Media Guru, cleary not, The Population RIP</p>
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		<title>By: Larry</title>
		<link>http://mumbrella.com.au/if-the-populations-demise-means-big-social-media-agencies-dont-work-there-may-be-room-for-small-ones-13666#comment-23481</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 04:28:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mumbrella.com.au/?p=13666#comment-23481</guid>
		<description>where is laurel to put this one to bed with some analysis

don&#039;t send gary!!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>where is laurel to put this one to bed with some analysis</p>
<p>don&#8217;t send gary!!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://mumbrella.com.au/if-the-populations-demise-means-big-social-media-agencies-dont-work-there-may-be-room-for-small-ones-13666#comment-23473</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 04:07:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mumbrella.com.au/?p=13666#comment-23473</guid>
		<description>@Matt  - Gotta agree with you there mate. 

Social media marketing can&#039;t exist in a vacuum nor can it look at itself as a stand alone solution that will tick all the boxes.  

Human behaviour is as varied as it comes and therefore so should be your marketing strategy..blah blah blah

My formula for a good SM outcome? Provocative and compelling talking points meets as many and highly varied touch points as technologically possible. Open every channel available and give people a reason to use them. 

Btw - I don&#039;t understand the ongoing belief that a Social media MD/specialist  would need to be active in social media themselves to be effective. I know many amazing PRs and to my knowledge, none of them write or edit or contribute to any publications ongoing. 

Someone can deeply understand the nuances of a social media platform withouth having to spend 3 hours a day on it. 

Hell! I&#039;m too busy running around after clients and my team to spend my day twittering but that doesn&#039;t mean I&#039;m less effective as a SM strategist. 

(commenting on Mumbrella is different of course!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Matt  &#8211; Gotta agree with you there mate. </p>
<p>Social media marketing can&#8217;t exist in a vacuum nor can it look at itself as a stand alone solution that will tick all the boxes.  </p>
<p>Human behaviour is as varied as it comes and therefore so should be your marketing strategy..blah blah blah</p>
<p>My formula for a good SM outcome? Provocative and compelling talking points meets as many and highly varied touch points as technologically possible. Open every channel available and give people a reason to use them. </p>
<p>Btw &#8211; I don&#8217;t understand the ongoing belief that a Social media MD/specialist  would need to be active in social media themselves to be effective. I know many amazing PRs and to my knowledge, none of them write or edit or contribute to any publications ongoing. </p>
<p>Someone can deeply understand the nuances of a social media platform withouth having to spend 3 hours a day on it. </p>
<p>Hell! I&#8217;m too busy running around after clients and my team to spend my day twittering but that doesn&#8217;t mean I&#8217;m less effective as a SM strategist. </p>
<p>(commenting on Mumbrella is different of course!)</p>
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		<title>By: John Grono</title>
		<link>http://mumbrella.com.au/if-the-populations-demise-means-big-social-media-agencies-dont-work-there-may-be-room-for-small-ones-13666#comment-23452</link>
		<dc:creator>John Grono</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 03:37:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mumbrella.com.au/?p=13666#comment-23452</guid>
		<description>Tim ... now that just makes too much bloody sense!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim &#8230; now that just makes too much bloody sense!</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Granfield</title>
		<link>http://mumbrella.com.au/if-the-populations-demise-means-big-social-media-agencies-dont-work-there-may-be-room-for-small-ones-13666#comment-23445</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Granfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 03:30:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mumbrella.com.au/?p=13666#comment-23445</guid>
		<description>Social media marketing is what happens when good PR and good digital get married. That&#039;s why One Green Bean and Host are killing it. That&#039;s the model. Case closed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Social media marketing is what happens when good PR and good digital get married. That&#8217;s why One Green Bean and Host are killing it. That&#8217;s the model. Case closed.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://mumbrella.com.au/if-the-populations-demise-means-big-social-media-agencies-dont-work-there-may-be-room-for-small-ones-13666#comment-23416</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 02:58:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mumbrella.com.au/?p=13666#comment-23416</guid>
		<description>Never understood the ongoing hoo ha about scoail media.

Take care of your customers and social media takes care of itself.

Pretty simple, really.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Never understood the ongoing hoo ha about scoail media.</p>
<p>Take care of your customers and social media takes care of itself.</p>
<p>Pretty simple, really.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam Granleese</title>
		<link>http://mumbrella.com.au/if-the-populations-demise-means-big-social-media-agencies-dont-work-there-may-be-room-for-small-ones-13666#comment-23247</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam Granleese</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 05:05:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mumbrella.com.au/?p=13666#comment-23247</guid>
		<description>I never saw the business case of creating a specialist agency for a medium that hardly any advertisers were spending much actual money in at the time. As a medium carrying some risk, the growth in spend was primarily going to come from those with big pockets, and via their rostered comms agency partners.

The model that has failed needs scale - clients with intensive social media presences - but most large scale social media projects end up being run by the client themselves (i.e. customer service) as they are more empowered than an external agency staffer or they want more control (i.e. in community management) or have certain legal requirements.

Even if the Population had grown a client to the point where they had 4-5 people working on a single client - most of that work (the day-to-day community management/customer service/etc) would probably be taken in house by the client, with the strategy/consulting/media-buying stuff left with the agency.

The commercially viable business for social media is still a) full-service or larger digital agencies, where it is included in the media mix - perhaps at the centre for many. Or b) as a owner-operator consultant writing strategy and policy frameworks for 10 or so clients at a time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I never saw the business case of creating a specialist agency for a medium that hardly any advertisers were spending much actual money in at the time. As a medium carrying some risk, the growth in spend was primarily going to come from those with big pockets, and via their rostered comms agency partners.</p>
<p>The model that has failed needs scale &#8211; clients with intensive social media presences &#8211; but most large scale social media projects end up being run by the client themselves (i.e. customer service) as they are more empowered than an external agency staffer or they want more control (i.e. in community management) or have certain legal requirements.</p>
<p>Even if the Population had grown a client to the point where they had 4-5 people working on a single client &#8211; most of that work (the day-to-day community management/customer service/etc) would probably be taken in house by the client, with the strategy/consulting/media-buying stuff left with the agency.</p>
<p>The commercially viable business for social media is still a) full-service or larger digital agencies, where it is included in the media mix &#8211; perhaps at the centre for many. Or b) as a owner-operator consultant writing strategy and policy frameworks for 10 or so clients at a time.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry</title>
		<link>http://mumbrella.com.au/if-the-populations-demise-means-big-social-media-agencies-dont-work-there-may-be-room-for-small-ones-13666#comment-23242</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 04:22:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mumbrella.com.au/?p=13666#comment-23242</guid>
		<description>do we really need 10 expert comments saying the same thing around social media apparently being a long term not tactical activity?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>do we really need 10 expert comments saying the same thing around social media apparently being a long term not tactical activity?</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Young</title>
		<link>http://mumbrella.com.au/if-the-populations-demise-means-big-social-media-agencies-dont-work-there-may-be-room-for-small-ones-13666#comment-23235</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Young</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 04:01:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mumbrella.com.au/?p=13666#comment-23235</guid>
		<description>The bottom line is that social media doesn&#039; t exist in a silo and it only ever did for about 5 minutes. Smart marketers now realise that social media is part of the complete mix. An offline activity is often the trigger for a social media / viral / digital campaign and firms need partners that have the relationships and the expertise to pull off this combination. Social media agencies may be au fait with the bells and whistles of the web but they are by nature siloed and therefore compromised as social media becomes an increasingly core and integrated component of marketing business.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The bottom line is that social media doesn&#8217; t exist in a silo and it only ever did for about 5 minutes. Smart marketers now realise that social media is part of the complete mix. An offline activity is often the trigger for a social media / viral / digital campaign and firms need partners that have the relationships and the expertise to pull off this combination. Social media agencies may be au fait with the bells and whistles of the web but they are by nature siloed and therefore compromised as social media becomes an increasingly core and integrated component of marketing business.</p>
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		<title>By: Marc Loveridge</title>
		<link>http://mumbrella.com.au/if-the-populations-demise-means-big-social-media-agencies-dont-work-there-may-be-room-for-small-ones-13666#comment-23234</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc Loveridge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 03:54:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mumbrella.com.au/?p=13666#comment-23234</guid>
		<description>SM isn&#039;t a product, it&#039;s a change in Internet behaviour.

As it&#039;s always been, the agencies that respond to this change and evidence their understanding through their campaign ideas are the one&#039;s that will succeed.

I think &quot;social media thinking&quot; can exist as a stand alone offering (the US has SM agencies of 30+ staff) but it is more likely, in Australia, to rest with a small group of well rounded &quot;planners&quot; who&#039;s job it is to understand internet consumer behaviour, whatever that may be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SM isn&#8217;t a product, it&#8217;s a change in Internet behaviour.</p>
<p>As it&#8217;s always been, the agencies that respond to this change and evidence their understanding through their campaign ideas are the one&#8217;s that will succeed.</p>
<p>I think &#8220;social media thinking&#8221; can exist as a stand alone offering (the US has SM agencies of 30+ staff) but it is more likely, in Australia, to rest with a small group of well rounded &#8220;planners&#8221; who&#8217;s job it is to understand internet consumer behaviour, whatever that may be.</p>
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		<title>By: Conflict of disinterest</title>
		<link>http://mumbrella.com.au/if-the-populations-demise-means-big-social-media-agencies-dont-work-there-may-be-room-for-small-ones-13666#comment-23220</link>
		<dc:creator>Conflict of disinterest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 02:56:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mumbrella.com.au/?p=13666#comment-23220</guid>
		<description>Nice one, Tony. Well said mate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice one, Tony. Well said mate.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Gain</title>
		<link>http://mumbrella.com.au/if-the-populations-demise-means-big-social-media-agencies-dont-work-there-may-be-room-for-small-ones-13666#comment-23214</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Gain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 00:40:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mumbrella.com.au/?p=13666#comment-23214</guid>
		<description>Interesting article Tim, and I agree with many of your thoughts. From my experience the amount of budget clients have been willing to invest in social media in isolation is limited. However, when combined with a more holistic marketing strategy involving PR, ATL and experiential the unifying component of social media is understood by clients and investment flows. 

The Population has no doubt done good work and been very generous with their case studies and learnings, but ultimately I wonder if a specialist social media agency make sense. Perhaps it makes no more sense than a specialist media agency, or PR agency (disclosure I work for Weber Shandwick), but the margins are big enough in those businesses for now. For me, unlike @Mike, I don’t think the Population was 18 months ahead of its time, instead I think it was applying an old agency logic to a new medium – i.e. let’s specialise. Collaboration across marketing disciplines typically delivers the best results, adding more siloed agencies into the mix doesn’t. IMHO anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting article Tim, and I agree with many of your thoughts. From my experience the amount of budget clients have been willing to invest in social media in isolation is limited. However, when combined with a more holistic marketing strategy involving PR, ATL and experiential the unifying component of social media is understood by clients and investment flows. </p>
<p>The Population has no doubt done good work and been very generous with their case studies and learnings, but ultimately I wonder if a specialist social media agency make sense. Perhaps it makes no more sense than a specialist media agency, or PR agency (disclosure I work for Weber Shandwick), but the margins are big enough in those businesses for now. For me, unlike @Mike, I don’t think the Population was 18 months ahead of its time, instead I think it was applying an old agency logic to a new medium – i.e. let’s specialise. Collaboration across marketing disciplines typically delivers the best results, adding more siloed agencies into the mix doesn’t. IMHO anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Walton</title>
		<link>http://mumbrella.com.au/if-the-populations-demise-means-big-social-media-agencies-dont-work-there-may-be-room-for-small-ones-13666#comment-23205</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Walton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 22:58:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mumbrella.com.au/?p=13666#comment-23205</guid>
		<description>Tim - the bigger issue you touch upon here is one that agencies have struggled with since long before social media came on the scene - how to balance expertise and thought-leadership in all aspects of communication whilst not weighing down an organisation, or clients, with truckloads of cost and bureaucracy.

Clients often view the one-stop-shop with scepticism, yet gathering a collection of experts from various disciplines often breeds politics and territorialism, as well of course higher fees.

Time will tell the extent to which there is a market for standalone social media agencies.  However, it is no secret that in the main those agencies that do well (whatever their core competence) excel in one thing - their ability to operate in a team, regardless of the logo on their namecards, and deliver on what it is their clients need.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim &#8211; the bigger issue you touch upon here is one that agencies have struggled with since long before social media came on the scene &#8211; how to balance expertise and thought-leadership in all aspects of communication whilst not weighing down an organisation, or clients, with truckloads of cost and bureaucracy.</p>
<p>Clients often view the one-stop-shop with scepticism, yet gathering a collection of experts from various disciplines often breeds politics and territorialism, as well of course higher fees.</p>
<p>Time will tell the extent to which there is a market for standalone social media agencies.  However, it is no secret that in the main those agencies that do well (whatever their core competence) excel in one thing &#8211; their ability to operate in a team, regardless of the logo on their namecards, and deliver on what it is their clients need.</p>
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