What pisses us off? Undisclosed media rebates and jargon, say marketers
Undisclosed media agency rebates emerged as an issue that frustrates marketers most at the Mumbrella360 conference in Sydney yesterday.
John Batistich, director of marketing at Westfield Group, said that not disclosing media rebates showed “a complete breach of trust” from media agencies, and he called for greater transparency.
Batistich’s comments came on the same day as TV network bosses slammed media agencies for focussing on price and promising “unachievable” discounts to win pitches.
Batistich was on a panel that included Michael Burgess, GM of marketing at Weight Watchers Australia, Mark Reinke, group executive of marketing at Suncorp and James Sykes, the APAC marketing director of Beam Suntory.
Burgess of Weight Watchers built on Batistich’s point, adding: “It’s the client’s responsibility to be sceptical. Even when it comes to digital reports, you need be sceptical about the data. You need to dig in and understand the data you’re been presented with.”
“We need to make sure we have a remuneration system that rewards effort and outcome. We need the model to be outcome-based,” he said.
Beam Suntory’s Sykes, who used to work at ad agency Y&R, said: “Clients have to train their agencies to behave they way they want them to behave.”
In answer to a question about “what pisses him off” the most about marketing, Sykes said “fad words” and industry jargon.
“We’re continually marginalising ourselves, because we talk shit most of the time. Most of what we say is meaningless, because fad words get in the way,” Sykes said.
“Advocacy” and “engagement” were fad words mentioned by the panel, which was moderated by Camille Alarcon, publisher of business prospecting tool, The Source.
Robin Hicks
topics
Camille Alarcon
This theme seems to be coming up again and again and now seems to be on the minds of the big marketers. It makes one wonder when words will turn into actions and clients start to walk away from the big agencies that carry on like this? Or will it remain just words?
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Makes you wonder what the procurement people and media auditors are all doing if this stuff is still going on……
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Need to look at Group deals and free media as well.
It’s not just rebates.
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Having worked publisher side and client-side, it has astounded me how much clients believe media agencies are acting in their best interest when in fact they act in the interests of maintaining volumes to keep their rebates from publishers!
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Like in agreement above I have worked media side at a senior level and client side. The pressure agencies/buying houses place on the media to deliver their lies told to win business about level of discount/ guaranteed bonus is prevalent everywhere and to outrageous levels. Like the rate agencies win business at is so low you end with a kid on 40k buying millions of media and he/she is still applying Clearasil most nights. You pay peanuts you get monkeys. Clients should pay a fair rate for quality work that works for the most important outcome – sales results demonstrable to clients. I day a book might get written about behaviours that would turn hair – problem is the author might be floating face down in the Parramatta river as it would bring down some big names.
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I recently had a ‘debate’ (some might say arguement) with a leading media agency director
I work in a ’boutique’ (read small) independent specialist agency and argued that clients DESERVE independent media advice and that in fact what they get are media plans orchestrated to meet trading deal quota’s, which in turn power the often substantial ‘rebates’.
The agency director argued that “clients get what they pay for”, which is true, especially if agencies continue the race to the bottom on price, thereby forcing themselves to survive on the aforementioned trading deals.
It saddens me as a marketing professional that the industry is built on trading deals/rebates and lunch at fancy restaurants and not on achieving important client goals through innovation and creativity.
But nothing saddens me more than a sentence that forever turned me away from big media agency world when I sat in a digital meeting and heard the Digital Director say ‘whatever the client problem the answer is NineMSN as we need to hit our target to get the kickback’ (yes it was a few years ago and I know it’s now Mi9)
Hopefully with technology delivering more transparency and providing clients and smaller agencies with a more level playing field, this old school and outdated agency BS will disappear!
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Marketers, you are in fact training this behaviour in your agencies (as suggested by James). You don’t value quality anymore, relationships mean nothing, price and volume is what they have agencies fight for to win their business. And the smaller, independent agencies don’t get a seat at the table, because they don’t have the buying power to satisfy the marketers needs or egos.
And to say “its a complete breach of trust”….. please! Really? Listen to what you’re saying.
Stop being part of the issue and start solving the problem. You wouldn’t know what to do or where to start if you had to do your own media buying. Your titles suggest you should be doing more – so get to work and set new standards. Reward the efforts and model for outcomes – stop whining!
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@Here Here – unfortunately whatever you heard a few years ago not only still exists but has got much worse. These practices will go on until clients start voting with their feet and moving. If there is a silver lining it is that there is definitely a growing rumble of discontent. I am amazed this rumble hasn’t grown stronger quicker but it is there and is growing and will eventually spill over into action.
If there is no action then perhaps it shows clients simply do not care they are getting ripped off. In which case we should all shut up and move on.
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What pisses us off? Distorted expectations from marketers that are at the root of this ripple effect problem, say everyone else.
Couldn’t agree with you more @snap out of it.
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I think marketers should put their money where their mouth is. Remunerate their internal team based on performance. A big chunk of the salary is only paid once a spectrum of results is delivered. Then instill the same at Agencies or maybe marketers prefer a big comfortable salary?
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It amuses me the dis-joint between what marketers say they want and then what is actually delivered. it’s almost diametrically opposed based on the fact that both sides are holding their cards too close to their chests.
In my experience if a campaign goes well the client claims the win, if it tanks then the agency gets their arse kicked – what a wonderfully f*&ked up place to build a ‘relationship’
Next move…fire the agency and hire some new schmucks, on lower rates, with higher expectations and less leniency. To this point I am currently in a pitch with a client and when I asked for clarity around how they arrived at their CPA, their response was ‘it’s what we want’ – GENIUS – zero logic!
I’m in agreement with tommryrot – remunerate the agencies the way that the marketing departments get targeted. After all, good marketing should make money, not cost money!
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Watching. Waiting. Ready to go. Ready to trade!
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