PR man promises: Media coverage or don’t pay me

This has been around for ages. This is not news. Slow news day. Granted he looks a bit of a wally, but this is a bit of a character assassination picking this up and posting it with little context. Also you never attribute in your article where “He said” this (I’m sure he said it but still, as a journalist, you should attribute the sources.)
Come on, this site should not just be a popbitch site.

he’ll have to pay himself now Tim – nice work!

Ha! Good lord this site needs to either learn what public relations is, or please stop reporting on “PR”.

1. Decent public relations consultants count publicity as about 5% of their overall offer.
2. “PR” does not mean “publicity” – maybe it did in 1986.

Please take ten minutes to find out what good public relations agencies do [hint: it’s what ad agencies used to do before they became stuff factories and started to become irrelevant].

Referring to publicity as PR is like referring to the entire marketing function as “advertising”.

Agree this is not a new offering – From memory, Publicity Queen and Media Juice were two PR outfits that had previously used this ‘pay only for media results’ type model. Problem is that these services just allow the publicist to act as a mouthpiece for a client – No counsel or strategic insights to help businesses find new and clever ways to talk to their target markets. It’s a fairly simple publicity model at best.

Jeeze Tim, you’re getting a battering aren’t you?

Irrespective of the enormity and excitement of PR we’ve just been reminded of by RexD (or is that MaxM?) , this Jothy guy comes accross as an A-grade douche, and the full windsor knot isn’t doing him any favours either.

Tim, please refer to me as Jenny from the block.
I just think you should have said in your article that this was a press release or wherever the quotes came from otherwise it has no context – no biggie.
So maybe not character assassination from you, more naive opportunism from a PR suit.
The no win, no fee structure is so subjective that it is a bit risky to use in our industry.

Maybe get Jothy on the Mumbrella podcast. Run a segment called “The (Free PR)Pitch” where he tells us how he can leverage a today tonight expose as the best possible media coverage. Could be funny.

So every article written using quotes from a press release should credit said press release as it’s source, Jenny?

I am at a loss as to why you think this should be the case or why it makes a diference.

I think Mumbrella is totally on target to report on this. It’s not just ‘PR as usual’, it’s also follow-up to a somewhat infamous PR blunder which the site previously reported.

That said, I’d like to see what ‘coverage’ Jothy will actually count. I mean, there are plenty of newspapers and magazines that will run ANYTHING, and if he lands a few pars from a press release in those, will that count as coverage?

Ads for the full windsor tie know – man, that massive know is more like a triple windsor born of a scarf and a cravat!

I can’t believe how immature you’re all being about this guy’s quadruple Windsor knot. Isn’t it obvious that he has a massive head and the knot keeps things in proportion? It’s an optical illusion folks!

Dear members of the media,

It has this morning come to my attention, courtesy of a fellow publicist, that Mr Jothy Hughes has issued a media release announcing himself as the only provider of performance-based publicity services in Australia. This is patently incorrect.

My company, Power PR has been providing performance-based publicity to various clients, from ASX-listed entities to SMEs for almost 12 months. I was the first person in Australia to introduce a performance-based, success fee, publicity model through another company I incorporated in 1997 called ‘Media Conduits Pty Limited’.

I think it’s tremendous that we now have a competitor and we welcome the challenge as the market can only benefit from the existence of companies such as ours. Notwithstanding, we will not sit back and allow Mr Hughes to take credit where otherwise it is not deserved.

I have put Mr Hughes on notice that his assertions are neither correct nor truthful in respect of his business being the first and only one of its kind in Australia and sought that he issue a retraction with a correction to the media and likewise, amend his website copy to truthfully reflect the current position.

There are a number of similarities between our offering and his although I will not go so far as to say he has copied us and accept his excuse that his actions were inadvertent and not intended to be misleading.

Once again, I think there is room for more than one performance-based publicity company in Australia and given the current economic climate and increasing demand from businesses for more accountability across all areas of expenditure, opportune.

Power PR works very closely with its clients to ascertain not only their goals and objectives, but likewise, to create campaigns and strategies designed to give their businesses maximum cut through with their target audiences. Our ethos however, is not dissimilar to many companies operating in our space, that said, the fact that we are prepared to back ourselves and only get paid for successful outcomes, is what gives us our point of difference and we will not allow any rival to make false representations that in any way compromise our reputation or position in the market.

Yours sincerely,

Nicholas Karandonis
CEO

Thank god you cleared that up Nicholas.

“[agency] works very closely with its clients to ascertain not only their goals and objectives, but likewise, to create campaigns and strategies designed to give their businesses maximum cut through with their target audiences.”

#wordsdouchebagssay

Wow that was so boring.

sure there might be a place for this kind of work, but for many of us who work in investor relations, Public Affairs or Healthcare its not PR. Its It’s not Tim’s fault we’re all lumped together. It’s more to do with as how we define ourselves as an industry.

When you’ve got such a small market its invariable that everything from government lobbying to publicity will get lumped together.

Personally think anyone can get media coverage – the challenge is getting quality, key message driven media coverage that achieves its aims.

Yawn.

And never trust a guy who’s tie-knot is as big as is head, or is it the other way around.

I guess, too that he’ll quote our web stats as proof he’s attracting attention…

kinda needs some clarification fellow readers – based on that lengthy post above – does that mean Nicholas is now obliged to pay himself for publicity he has generated… for himself… or does Jothy Hughes owe Nicholas for the extra PR he has generated for him… or do they both need to invoice each other for mutual PR generation… PR is such a mystery that I am amazed at how it is billed out.

I’m sure the PRIA would have something to say about this. I believe it goes against the PRIA Code of Ethics. Even though he isn’t “guaranteeing” results, it sounds to me like he’s clearly implying it… A dangerous road to go down for any PR person.

Let the market decide. I think serious PR players know what the sophisticated PR marketer is after. And i’d be surprised if it’s this.

I can also confidently guarantee client coverage on TV, radio, newspapers and magazines. It’s called advertising.

Also, his twitter says he is a “mediaologist”. Even google and urban dictionary couldn’t help me on that one so i’m fairly sure that’s a made up job. Words, they are our bread and butter.

Another small copyright issue – Clicked to the “contact” section of his website to fine his tagline “Impossible is nothing”. Thinking Adidas might have a slight issue with his use of that phrase in this commercial context?

Oh dear.

Rei, i can confidently guarantee that your client advertising will cost at least 10 times as much but be only half as effective as good PR.

This is the funniest thread on mumbrella. Anon 333 and Darren Kerr you have keyboards of gold.

@sven
Unfortunately for you i work in ethnic media, where (depending on product, concept and campaign) media buying is cheap and ROI is really high. You can buy a front page for a few hundred bucks… but i digress.

In any instance, I wouldn’t trust a PR professional who guarantees placement and will work for free. To do this means they lack basic understanding and appreciation of where quality PR is today and its possibilities… as well as its wider ethical implications in the media industry.

Further to the PRIA Member post above, try point six in the Code of Ethics: http://tinyurl.com/369dlmo

@PRIA Member – hate to break it to you, but I don’t know many PR folk who see the PRIA as their go-to for stuff like this. I don’t condone unethical or unhelpful practices, but I also don’t rely on the PRIA to tell me what they are, and nor do many PR practitioners I know.

But back to the more important matter of bagging this douche bag… that tie looks ridiculous – perhaps the PRIA could come up with some rules & regulations about that?

@ANON333 that made me laugh on an otherwise ‘normal’ day so thanks.

Would you trust this man? Lucky that the only clients who will be tricked by this fool are the ones the rest of us don’t want. You want a guarantee? Buy a bloody ad. Want third-party endorsement, generate a debate or discussion, change someone’s mind? Go to a real PR firm, not this lightweight.

Thanks Anthony and other PRIA members for pointing out relevant clauses of the PRIA Code of Ethics.

The Institute requires members to adhere to the highest standards of ethical practice and professional competence. All members are duty-bound to act responsibly and to be accountable for their actions.

As is pointed out above clause 6 of the code states “Members shall refrain from proposing or agreeing that their consultancy fees or other remuneration be contingent entirely on the achievement of specified results.”

In addition to the PRIA’s Code of Ethics, which binds the consultancy principal and all consultants who are members of the PRIA, a Registered Consultancy is bound by the PRIA Code of Practice. The Code of Practice also outlines, amongst other things, appropriate practices in terms of fees and income.

For further information visit our website at http://www.pria.com.au or email info@pria.com.au.

In relation to the comments from the PRIA, I am not at all implying that I will get coverage and am not breaching any code of ethics. The beauty of my ‘pay on results’ PR model is that I don’t promise anything. I sit down with a client, understand their business and the objectives they would like to fulfill and then I attempt to get them this coverage. People only pay me if this result is achieved.

The first client I worked with on this model, Phytologic, had a retainer with 2 registered PRIA agencies who didn’t get them a single piece of coverage. That is why they came to me, so they wouldn’t have to pay larger retainers and receive nothing in return. I have already got this company coverage on Today Tonight, which is exactly what they were after, together with numerous other hits in high circulating women’s magazines, local newspapers and radio interviews.

In relation to my ‘pay on results’ PR model, Brett Ditchfield, CEO of Phytologic had this to say “I have worked with a couple of big PR firms in the past and none of them got me the coverage I needed or wanted! I contracted Jothy initially on a project basis to get me some specific coverage for my product Anthogenol and he got me the coverage I wanted. Since then we have sat down and worked out a completely transparent sliding scale for all coverage he gets me with different monetary rewards for each bit of coverage – for example product placement, radio interviews, magazine editorial, very specific newspaper stories and big TV hits. This is a win win situation for me, because I only pay him on results and I definitely recommend this PR strategy.”

I would like to thank everyone for their comments on my windsor knot also- however you are all wrong, it’s in fact a double windsor! Let me know if anyone would like any tips on how to tie it?

Finally, I would like to say that I have already picked up 2 brand new clients from this, who I am meeting with next week to discuss my ‘pay on results PR’ model.

If anyone has any further questions, please don’t hesitate to contact me on 0423 491 808 and I will get you coverage…N O W!

“I would like to thank everyone for their comments on my windsor knot also- however you are all wrong, it’s in fact a double windsor! Let me know if anyone would like any tips on how to tie it?”

With that said, it’s a very badly done double windsor

About time some-one gave it to that trashy tv show. Nice work Jothy. Congratulations on launching a performance based company. Good-luck. For those people having a go why dont you put your own service on the line in this regard. It should be ENCOURAGED not dissed.

Does anyone find PRIA’s clause 6 completely bizarre ? “Members shall refrain from proposing or agreeing that their consultancy fees or other remuneration be contingent entirely on the achievement of specified results.”

Why? because it shows up the firms who promise the world but deliver nothing?

I don’t know a client who wouldn’t like to at least try this model, providing they trusted the PR to represent them with integrity.

This clause is a protectionist restraint of trade. PRs and their clients should be free to agree remuneration on any basis they wish.

The question as to whether a PR has misled a client regarding the likelihood of securing coverage is a completely separate issue.

Does anyone know if the PRIA has ever expelled a member firm, or individual, for unethical behaviour?

Let’s face it you get what you pay for and pay peanuts, get monkeys.

This is PR, and an interesting way to promote, well done to the firm – any publicity is good publicty right?

Just a query, seems that the NOW communications website is not complete as yet? I couldnt get past the Home screen.

@ Glen I do remember a consultant being expelled for unethical behaviour… just can’t remember who or when…

Perhaps Jon knows?

karalee

Hi Ali,

Thanks for your comments.

The website should be working fine, as i’ve checked it a number of times. On some computers which run older software sometimes you can’t get past the first page, so this could be the problem?

Sorry you weren’t able to view it properly.

Jothy – I’m sorry but does your quote “people only pay me if this result is achieved.” not explicitly negate that “In relation to the comments from the PRIA, I am not at all implying that I will get coverage and am not breaching any code of ethics”?

Your business model is media coverage or don’t pay. Therefore, it’s clearly in breach of the PRIA’s code as quoted by Jon “as is pointed out above clause 6 of the code states “Members shall refrain from proposing or agreeing that their consultancy fees or other remuneration be contingent entirely on the achievement of specified results.”

Granted, you’re probably not a member but if you are, then I sincerely hope the PRIA take a strong and public stance on this. If not for anything else but to reassure the industry that our professional association is advocating for ethical and responsible public relations.

Karalee.

@ Jothy

Our systems are the latest IE, I wonder if anyone else is having these technical issues?
All good I guess – although you might be losing potential clients if thats the case.

Once again well done on the launch!

@PriaMember – If the Pria code of ethics does not allow someone to do the most ethical thing by their clients i.e. you only pay for results – then ……………&%$&*@………..seriously have a look at your code!!!!!!!. I would much prefer to hire a PR agency that lives by this code as opposed to whatever the PRIA code is. My advice to the PR community is to come up with an ethical value on what you deliver. Too often i have seen PR agencies do a job, whether good or bad, then submit a post campaign report which gives a $ figure to each component which could not be more inflated and wrong…………maybe that is just my experience but the result of this is that it makes other agencies work seem less effective to the client – simply because they present real figures and the PR agency is deluded as to their worth. It also deludes clients that do not understand true advertising value………..Next PR job i am briefed on i will be hiring someone with a performance based model and make a point of not hiring someone that lives by that clause 6 above. Good luck Jothy and anyone with that performance model

Dear anon 1 – sounds like you are from an Advertising Agency given your ref to “true advertising value”. I assume you only charge your clients for campaigns with a proven causal link to improved sales and you do your dosh on everything else.

Looks like good old Jothy’s back to his old tricks.

What a way to end a week… reading much of the illinformed rubbish contained in far too many of the above comments! “Publicity” is to PR what “SEM” is to ‘Advertising”… four fiths of five eights of not much! As to those people discussing PR based on paying for results, wake up! It entirley depends on the client company involved and the type of communication channel you are recommending (or being encouraged by the client to use). It can take at least three months hard work developing strategies, creating messages that define your difference to others in the market, media training, engaging with editors and journalists, and creating real content on a corporate website (yes, that’s where professional journalists go first to check client credentials) before you can even hope to start gaining ‘meaningful’ coverage for a client. And even then, if your primary communication channel is a monthly magazine (trade or vertical) then it may be another 30 – 60 days before an article is published. The bottom-feeding end of this communication process is were ‘publicity’ comes in… the ‘any coverage is good coverage’ brigade. After all, I can guarantee someone coverage if that person jumps off the Harbour Bridge (and especially so if I invite journalists to come and watch) but what is the positive brand, commercial or business premise or message flowing from this act? Nothing! PR is extraordinarily poorly served in terms of trade media coverage (partly I think because the PRIA does such a poor job of promoting what PR really is), and therefore does not give itself the opportunity to educate people about its purpose, promises and place in the marketing mix. But it does not help when it is discussed in advertising, online marketing and social media forums such as this. Maybe, Tim, you might look at having a dedicated PR content stream to mUmBRELLA so that it truly can become: ‘everything under Australia’s media and marketing umbrella”.

Jothy should join Max Markson. He’s an expert in self promotion but not in true PR. I reckon very few companies will want this kind of service if they understand that PR is not just about media mentions. In fact, media coverage is becoming only a minor part of what real PR firms do these days. The horse and cart firms like Jothy’s ethically marginal outfit can stick to the grunt work, and leave the high-end clients for those consultants who know what they’re doing.

Good on you anon1 – make sure when you do go looking for a performance-based company to get you the results you want, to look at Power PR – http://www.powerpr.com.au – or call (02) 9550 1300.

Power PR celebrates its first anniversary in August and already has a healthy list of clients and success stories and a transparent pricing policy based on audience.

This appears to be quite a long thread… with plenty of established PRs – living off the fat of exorbitant fees – very active in dishing out unashamedly adverse commentary.

They are, of course, free to browse the internet and make passing comments on interesting sites while the clock is still clicking for the client…. their agency gets its fee regardless, so who cares if you get runs on the board??!!!

I can hear some of them right now: “Ha ha .. those sucker clients, we can be as incompetent as we want, who cares if we know nothing about what the media wants and can’t get a single story up – we’re still getting our financial safety net retainer and the client has no other option but to pay!!!! hahahaha”

Well thankfully, the client does have an option – Power PR!! Thankyou Nic Karandonis for pioneering a new approach (back in 1997) which brings back some accountability to the industry.

For the silent majority of PRs who know this is the way forward, put your hand up now and register some interest in working for Power PR… it will need you soon!

For those desperately clinging to justification from PRIA’s colonial guidelines, we’ll try throwing you a life vest.. not sure though whether there’s enough to go around!

What about Clause 6 of the PRIA code? This provision should give you a good idea about what PRIA thinks about its members guaranteeing value for money. Surely there’s a way they can guarantee their existence through another convoluted ducument??!!

I think PRIA is appropriately named and phonetically apt – “prior” of course suggesting that belongs firmly in the past!

“Members shall refrain from proposing or agreeing that their consultancy fees or other remuneration be contingent entirely on the achievement of specified results.”

again, can anyone tell me exactly what is unethical and/or irresponsible about this? I just can’t see it.

earth to Geoff – if you think clients are paying for “developing strategies, creating messages…training, engaging… and creating real content on a corporate website” yyou are either new to PR or in the wrong business. They are paying for media coverage, the rest is the means to the end, and what you use to justify your fees.

this probably explains why you’re taking 3-4 mths to place stories that would take an experienced and connected PR a couple of days and a few phone calls to place 🙂

*Sigh*

I urge you *all* to read this wonderful piece in The Australian from a couple of days ago that eloquently explains why I for one, don’t like to say I work in ‘PR’ anymore. Let alone the comments in this thread…

http://www.theaustralian.com.a.....5891321598

Geoff raises a good point: understanding your client’s expectations is key for any client/agency relationship to be viable, and this includes openly discussing if the client/CEO wants his/her photo in the Fin Review (to impress shareholders), or wants you to get a product shot in The Tele (increase sales), or whatever it is that matters to them. And from experience, there is some vanity at play here, not that an agency would say that to a client of course. A good PR agency will ask a prospective client “what do you want from a PR agency” and/or, “what do you expect” – this helps both sides understand each other. Like 50% of marriages, poor communication between the parties leads to separation.

The PRIA has no legal authority over it’s member’s activities, let alone non-member PR agencies. It is not like being a Doctor, or lawyer, where the “industry association” has significant powers to expel members who engage in unethical behaviour.

To use a PR analogy, the PRIA can use strong words, but lacks deeds.

@Karalee & @Geoff,

Not so much PRIA expelling/taking action, but I do remember a Porter Novelli boss giving up his membership as a result of unethical behaviour – see the DMG/Austereo debacle.

Further to the story, a similar one was discussed on Dynamic Business last year (link: http://bit.ly/cCKhmk).

The sticking point is ‘guaranteeing’ any sort of media coverage and I agree this is impossible to do. There are too many factors out of the practioner’s control, and as a result has the potential to impact both the reputation of that firm, and of the industry as a whole.

@sven you are showing your incomprehension of the work PR people do if you think all PR is about ‘media coverage’. Yes, publicity is, but as has also already been said, that is but one small part of public relations.

In fairness to Jothy, all he is guaranteeing is he won’t charge them if he stuffs up the publicity project and misses his targets.

sven, The more I read here the more disillusioned I become about too many in our industry today. You say “earth to Geoff – if you think clients are paying for “developing strategies, creating messages…training, engaging… and creating real content on a corporate website” yyou are either new to PR or in the wrong business. They are paying for media coverage, the rest is the means to the end, and what you use to justify your fees. this probably explains why you’re taking 3-4 mths to place stories that would take an experienced and connected PR a couple of days and a few phone calls to place.”

If you tell clients you can gain meaningful coverage for them in a monthly magazine (trade or consumer) in a couple of days with a few phone calls then you are simply leading them on. Coverage will depend on so many factors, first of which will be newsworthiness.

As to me being “new to this industry or in the wrong business”, you should not state such infantile opinions without knowing the facts, it shows a real lack of maturity and a disregard for research. Look at my website; http://www.b2b-itpr.com.au. Google “Geoff Hoddinott”. Go to http://www.consensus.com.au and look at the judges for their A/NZ software awards. Do the same with the Australian Interactive Media Industry Association (AIMIA) – I am also a judge for their awards. I am a PR professional with over 13 year’s experience. Before that I was an advertising professional – a creative director in Australia for a global agency. I know marketing very, very well, and all the components of it, and have assisted clients in gaining awareness, building reputations, forging relationships with all sorts of stakeholders including media and up/downstream suppliers and channel partners. I have mentored and assisted over a dozen young graduates in just the last decade, helping them to further their PR and Marcomms careers. I do pro bono Marcomms work for a leading local tech industry NFP association, have presented to an overseas foreign journalist association and been asked to present and speak at numerous advertising/marketing/new media events in Australia. Sven, PR is NOT just about media coverage. And the sooner people (including marketing managers, those new to PR and many university lecturers) understand this, the better it will be. PR is about using (when necessary) non-media channels for communicating with audiences, it is about helping clients craft messages for audiences – and developing measurement metrics beyond mindless and meaningless media clips. Anyone else want a piece of me?

Well written Geoff

Hi again all

The use of success fees is an ongoing area of debate across the many areas of PR practice and a debate PRIA welcomes. Recently we have had considerable discussions with the Federal Government and the NSW Independent Commission against Corruption regarding the use of success fees in Government Relations practice.

‘Success fees’ are widely misunderstood and from discussions and research with our members, including multi-national PR consultancies, reportedly overrated. However, it is not PRIAs position that success or performance fees should not form part of an agencies remuneration. The PRIA Code of Ethics states, “Members shall refrain from proposing or agreeing that their consultancy fees or other remuneration be contingent ENTIRELY on the achievement of specific results.”

Our research shows that whilst success fees are rarely used by our members, success fees can form a portion but not the entirety of payment for services. Our recent submission to ICAC states that “They should properly be seen as a ‘performance bonus’ which rewards an outstanding outcome and are used in many professions.”

There is regular debate about the place of success fees in many other professions, just today there was an article in the SMH regarding the legal profession – http://www.smh.com.au/national.....10cnj.html.

I also thought I’d take the time to provide some detail on the PRIA disciplinary procedures.

Firstly, Ethical and professional practice complaints are always fully investigated and over the years PRIA has taken action on many occasions and in fact has gone as far as the Federal court in enforcing the PRIA code of ethics.

However, as there is no law requiring public relations practitioners to be registered, licensed or accredited – as there is for doctors, dentists, lawyers and plumbers, for example – there is no statutory penalty for misconduct or professional negligence as a public relations practitioner. Nor, at present are there any federal or state regulations which apply specifically to public relations practice (other than for Lobbying). However PRIA has a code of ethics which all members must observe and a code of practice which applies to members of PRIA’s Registered Consultancies Group. Like Engineers Australia, the AMA and many other industry Associations PRIA is not able to deal with complaints against non-members.

Apart from issuing a warning, PRIA, does have the legal power to impose the following penalties against members and registered consultancies:
– censure;
– a fine;
– suspension of membership for a specific period; and
– expulsion.

Cheers

Jon

Hi John, Well clarified. I would add that if clients and agencies agreed on ‘meaningful’ measurements, then ‘performance fees’ or “performance bonus’ payments would be unnecessary. The problem here is that PR has always struggled in how results should be measured. As an example, I have worked in a regional context for over a decade with a multinational organisation – one of the largest in the world – and some six or seven years ago suggested that ‘clips’ was a meaningless means of measurement. This organisation now measures on metrics that include; tonality, number of agreed corporate messages included, number of times the brand name is mentioned, what tier of publication the coverage is in, what the circulation of the publication is, whether the brand name is in the headline, whether the logo is included in a photo, where in the publicatuion it is publised, and whether it is an inclusion in an industry article or a contributed article. If clients and agencies could agree on such ‘meaningful’ measurements, there would be no need for ‘success fees’ at all. All it takes is a few brains and a bit of maturitry – but until PR is sold and explained to senior management, marketing managers who are judged by ‘volume of coverage’ will be easily tempted to engage with agencies which will pander to their imposed (if meaningless) measurement regimes.

Sorry, should have said Jon! It’s getting late in the day

Perhaps the PR industry should adopt the CEO model where you pay a massive amount to stop the services of a bad firm?

PR is a commodity

I love Jothy

Yes – I think the Fake Sol Trujillo said it best – “PR is a commodity” – why else would there be a need for innovative business models being promulgated by the likes of Jothy and others if it weren’t?