Robert Morgan: Ad agencies suffering from lack of women in creative roles

As a working mother, (Accounts Receivable job) I know how much home life and “real world” pressures impact on my creative juices (and they’re only a hobby) – so I can only imagine that female “creatives” in advertising agencies would suffer from the same problem.

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It’s pretty hard to do when you have a child. The hours that are demanded are hard to balance with daycare. I would challenge Mr Morgan to offer a creative solution for this withing his companies, then many creative women that I know of would be able to return. At the moment however it is unrealistic, why would you put so many hours into building a career that once you have a child you can’t return to?

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I did an AdSchool copywriting course a while back and it was abundantly clear that the teacher gave preference to the male students. Granted, there were really talented guys (many of whom were already working in the industry) in our class but there were equally talented women who were overlooked and subtly belittled the entire time (and I’m not talking about myself here – this is not sour grapes).

It gave me a taste of the ‘boy’s club’ of advertising and completely turned me off looking for work as a copywriter because I found the teacher’s behaviour so frustrating.

In PR, there is absolutely no doubt that creative women rule but in advertising, the men seem to have the upper echelons sewn up.

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Maybe women are smart enough to realize in Australia it’s a pretty lame, look at me look at me PR tragic, dog-fuck-dog industry, obsessed with the pursuit of gold animals for scam ads at the expense of a life.

Add in holding companies who just want more work with less people so regional managers can get their bonus.

And finish with retarded clients with no vision, spine, practical sense or budget.

Makes playing with your kid in the park seem kind of appealing don’t you think?

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I’m a senior copywriter and work for myself primarily because I don’t want to play the game. Are there a lack of ladies in agencies due to work/life issues as Clem’s chairman says? I’d say the issue is much broader.

We don’t like to admit it, but there *is* a subtle boy’s club at play in ad land. I personally prefer to work it in a way that’s make me feel good about myself and what I do for my clients. So for the time being, that means flying solo.

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Well, maybe he should have a chat with their Melbourne CD who is famous for barely employing one female creative in his 30 year career.

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Women are good at making babies – women are crap at making ads. The end.

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It’s because of the lack of women in this industry that Apple decides to come up with a name like iPad~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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I love German beer

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Could Rob tell us a little more about recent the dildo incident in his Sydney office?

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Jason – We are all lucky that women are good at making babies otherwise you wouldn’t be alive to make sexist comments.

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Jason, I’m buying you a beer.

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The boys club is wherever you work in this industry, but women (without kids) need to help women more too.

Believe it or not women who have had kids are not idiots, but unflexible companies like Germaine Beer explains make it pretty impossible for women to want to come back and play the game.

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“The hardest bit – and I don’t know the answer to this – is we do seem to have an enormous drop off when they get to that pointy end of a ship and other priorities come in and I don’t know how you deal with it. We job share, we try all sorts of stuff but it is hard,” he said.

That’s what she said.

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Thanks for that Jason – suitably inflaming as you probably intended. As a female creative director I have often wondered about the lack of peers, the lack or role models and the lack of mentors. It is definitely a role that requires a strong ego – an unbelievable, almost pathological belief in your own ability – and an incredibly thick skin – and like it or not – more men have these attributes than women. There are a few of us women out there who can role with the punches – but gee they hurt sometimes…

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Emma,

It’s odd that you apply equal weighting to both your and your tutor’s opinion on what constitutes good advertising. What you think is good in an AdSchool doesn’t count for much; you’re there to learn, after all. It’s entirely possible that the boys were just better than the girls that year. I’ve spent many years tutoring upcoming creatives and I can tell you that the only (and I mean only) thing that matters is the work. I couldn’t care less who comes up with it. Please get over yourself.

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Tim sorry to say this but I think the Mumbrella question time yesterday really did not deliver, the panel did not answer the questions in a smart and succinct way. Hence why the article above is the only topic you could drag out that may create a blip of interest. Of all the industries I would say the marketing industry is well and truly run by women, so a topic not worth debating.
Thanks, looking forward to the next question time.

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Tim,

You are describing your experience. I was describing mine.

Defensive much?

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The “boys club” in advertising is so strong that even a lot of males can get into it!

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Two words: Glass Ceiling

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I think back to Fast Forward’s Brent Smythe and Barry stereotype…pony tailed wankers…ahh the memories..

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The Beer is right on the Honey.
Still waiting on your male colleagues to ask advice on how to juggle family and career? Mmmm…
Ever wondered what would happen if the creative director (CD) even ran with your idea?
Imagine this. You are in a boardroom brainstorming with your team. You contribute to the session and your ideas have made it onto the short list. One of two things happens. A) CD takes your “crazy” idea calls it his own. Campaign is a success. He takes the credit. B) CD takes his own idea that he’s belted out 100 times before. Campaign lacks luster. He blames you.
I am a CRAZY creative and I challenge Morgan to put his money where his mouth is… hire me! My number is… wait, what am I doing? Thanks Morgan. I’ll start my own agency and hire the Morgan’s of this world, as there aren’t enough men in junior positions in our industry… apart from the runners/cocaine fetchers.

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This industry is a crap experience for most guys and girls except for the crap CEOs who demand all of us including the boys work long crap hours to neglect our kids and partners earning crap money and walking into work each day crapping our pants expecting to be fired every day for crap budget reasons.

Few senior female creatives? Because women are smart enough not to put with with crap.

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Mornin’ all.

I’m a female CD, and while I’m quite sure the advertising boy’s club exists, I don’t think my career’s ever been negatively affected by it.

I’m not saying it’s a myth, but I do wonder if it gets used as an excuse.

After all, it’s far more palatable to suggest that women don’t rise to the top because someone’s keeping us at the bottom, than to consider that we may be keeping ourselves there.

One of the reasons women tend not to be as prominent in ‘leadership positions’ is the kids/life/family/friends/life/work balance issue. Usually, those in key agency roles are expected to put their job before all else, and let’s face it, guys are often better at this than we are.

Bottom line is, if you’re good at what you do and your priority is work, you’ll probably find yourself at the top one day.

Whether or not that will make you happy is another story.

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Niki Gold – well said. This is a big problem as women second guess themselves all the time and are their own worst critic.

I’m a senior woman in adland. It’s hard and we aren’t meant to admit it.

On a minor point – Women get stuck between trying to be one of the boys when the sexist jokes come out vs being seen as a prude.

The industry is getting better with flexibility, however, the tricky bit is when women leave because they’re sick of lazy men who take all the credit, male bravado bullshit &. lack of respect. It takes a twice as talented woman to get to the same place.

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I think it is all to do with agency culture and attitude. I would say that the women are the smart ones who make the move to client side marketing roles and in turn end up with much better working conditions and a higher salary.

Good on ya gals.

(PS I am a man – a gay one but still a man)

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Emma,

Talent in creative really does rise to the top because it’s rare, frankly. If you had a bad experience (possible), but really had some ability you would have landed yourself a gig eventually because A) Adland always needs new talent and B) most people lack the persistence to keep trying and just quit.

Are you currently employed as an ad creative? If not, shhhhhhhhhh! One bad experience in one ad class hardly constitutes a position from which you should feel qualified to comment on the state of advertising as a whole.

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Cripes what a dirty old can of worms… The true grit lies in the fact that, after 30 odd years of so-called equality, the same old sexist shit still exists. I’ve had 20 years in adland. I ‘put off’ the kids/family/life to have a successful career. I sat back and watched silently as male colleagues took credit for my ideas and blamed me for their mistakes (yes, this really happens). Then giggled quietly to myself when they tripped themselves up on their own shortcomings. I’ve had male CDs treat me as if I’m a complete bimbo without even looking at my work. Worse still, they’ve not believed it IS my work because I couldn’t possibly be that clever and female. I still have to fight to get paid as well as my male colleagues (and often don’t). But I’ve also had to deal with bitchy, competitive female colleagues with thicker skins and more blood-thirsty ambition than I could hope for. Because they’ve had to work and fight just as long and hard as I have and sabotaging a female colleague is less demoralising than sucking up to a male ego. Yes, it does STILL take twice as much talent for a woman to get to the same place as a man. Especially if you’ve got small boobs and would rather spend your hard-earned spoils on a nice sportscar or well-earned holiday instead of on cosmetic enhancements. What century are we in?

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We’ve got an even split of creatives in our office (3 males, 3 females). Our CD is male, our MD female. There’s plenty of healthy debating and a good balance of hormones.

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Tim,

Goodness me! I didn’t realise that only currently employed ad creatives were allowed to comment on this public opinion forum.

Forgive me.

Perhaps if you’d been my teacher, I would have had plenty of good things to say.

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Agree Tim, I did AWARD School twice (one of my classmates ended up in recruitment and another became a mortgage broker), the copy school and several other courses while working crap jobs I hated just to pay the bills and eat. It took me years (literally) to land my first gig but every rejection I received made me more determined. I welcomed criticism – don’t blow smoke up my arse to be nice tell what you really think so I can fix and improve. This perseverance paid off and I am in a great agency with a great crew (many of whom are women).

Well said Kate@cubed, I have worked with both sexes and some have been exceptional and others pathetic and didn’t deserve to be there. Do we really want a government type approach of having women in positions for appearance or tokenism? This undermines the very talented women in our industry who work exceptionally hard and tars them with the very unfair brush of “you’re only there because you’re a woman” and angers others who miss out on a position because the male quota is full. If you’re the best person for the job gender should play a role. But that’s just the idealist in me coming out.

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Emma Shhhhhh,

The adults are talking.

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Gender should NOT play a role I meant to say

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Anyone who thinks it’s better to have a have a female boss never worked for Amy Smith.

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Here’s the thing. It takes more than good ideas to make it as a creative. It sucks, but it’s true. Women are disadvantaged by this. But is there anything we can do beyond ranting about it online – probably not. If there we’re, I’m sure all the super talented creative women stuck at home would have found a solution.

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Emma ignore these tossers. You are completely entitled to you opinion and getting a newcomers opinion/view is just as relevant as hearing from somebody with 20 years experience.

It’s appears that the industry is not only sexist but ageist too. Who would have thunk it?

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After reading this piece and all 37 (so far) comments, it’s clear that the gender divide still exists in this industry, even if not everyone agrees on what causes it or what to do about it. Morgan really has stated the obvious and it’s not even newsworthy the issue is so old; what’s encouraging is that finally someone in a role like his publicly admits it. Well done, Mumbrella, for stimulating debate. If we don’t debate it, we won’t fix it…

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What do women want (aka Mel Gibson/Helen Hunt movie..)

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@ C K – Women want a fair shake of the sauce bottle.

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Strewth! Has there been much industry development to assist women in getting more into creative type roles?

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This is a ‘white people’ thing too.

Not that I have any problem with you white people. But the underrepresentation of women is only part of the problem and I’m sure the misogynistic crap that agencies produce is a reflection of it.

You people need more cultural and ethnic diversity – so you can stop producing all that racist crap too. Look at the stuff that comes out of creative – it’s all happy smiling white people with lovable Labradors and babies with blonde hair and stuff – you know what I’m talking about.

Asians, coloured folk – we make the rare random ‘politically correct’ token appearance. But it feels like we’ve crashed your party.

Oh, don’t look at me like that (I imagine you rolling your eyes and frowning) you know It’s true; the people that populate advertising don’t look much like the people in the real world. It’s like all your ads and photographs were shot in Scandinavia. What’s the deal with that?

Maybe because the creative is the white department.

Seriously, have a look around your creative department – sure there will be the Asian designer or developer, or the occasional wog – but that’s about it. Seriously, get up now, take a walk around and have a look for yourself. Be careful of becoming ‘snow blind’ (is that what it’s called when all that reflected light from all that whiteness damages your eyes?).

What’s wrong with you creative director people? Honestly, us non-white people are nice. You’ll like us. Go on, introduce yourself to one of us, you’ll see.

Love, hugs and kisses

Lavinia.

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Poles or holes. Cheap shot and gutless to boot.

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“Look at the stuff that comes out of creative – it’s all happy smiling white people with lovable Labradors and babies with blonde hair and stuff – you know what I’m talking about.”

This pisses me off and I *am* white. It also pisses me off that the default family is still an apparently married white couple with two young school age children. I once read a startling statistic about what a low percentage of households this actually represents, compared to perceptions. I can’t find that stat now – I believe it was less than 15 per cent – but at least a quarter of all Australian households now comprise single people.

As a comparison, here are some US stats:

“(AmeriStat, March 2003) Images of the traditional family still dominate our televisions and magazines, but they do not represent how most Americans live. In 2002, only 7 percent of all U.S. households consisted of married couples with children in which only the husband worked. Dual-income families with children made up more than two times as many households. Even families with two incomes and no children outnumbered the traditional family by almost two to one.”

So who is to blame for this? Male creatives and/or male clients who assume (or wish) that women stay at home and raise children?

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You try running a small business and have 4 senior women leave to have babies in less than 2 years. You explain to their replacements that its only a 12 months or
6 months gig because you have to keep places open for when the women want to return. Then try and get good people who actually want a gig like that. It’s good for Clems to promote opportunities for women, but small businesses are often left with no choice but to hire men simply because the disruption to their business is just too great when women leave to have kids [as wonderful as that is]. It’s sad and should not be seen as a reflection on womens ability to do or achieve anything, but sometimes a small business persons first responsibility has to be to their business, not to a social agenda, no matter how worthy

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Jesus. It’s clearly someone’s time of the month.

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Dear ‘a fact’ comment 45.

You are such a creep. What a despicable thing to write.

What’s it like being part of the problem?

What would your mother say if she read your comment?

Show some spine. Doing the right thing never comes without a price. Seriously, how do you think the world works – would you like a free sandwich and a pat on the back?

You don’t do the right thing because it’s easy. You do it because it’s right.

Your first responsibility is that simple.

Do what is right and everything else will follow. And if it doesn’t, at least you will be able to live with yourself.

You’ll figure this out when you are older. Everyone does.

If you were my boyfriend, tonight you’d be sleeping on the couch. And even then I’d expect flowers and an apology tomorrow.

Don’t take it from me. Ask our mother. Go on pick up the phone and tell her what you think, then listen to her.

I promise you, you’ll feel like an idiot. Call mum, call her now.

Silly boy

X

Lavinia

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Kate and Katie, I agree with both of you. What a rollicking debate we’ve got going here! I love it. I’m a Creative Director in the US. Only 3% of the creatives who reach CD level here in the US are women.(The rest are too smart to stick in the biz:)) That means that even though women are the world’s most powerful consumer and most advertising should be targeting them, male creative directors are the ones deciding what campaigns will run. It is a scientific fact that men and women get excited by different things, laugh at different jokes, and travel different paths during the decision making process. In short, we speak a different language. So there’s often a huge disconnect between what a male CD thinks is funny or appealing or compelling and what a female consumer finds engaging.
The end result is that the overwhelming majority of women feel advertisers “don’t get them” and 35% are actually offended by the ads that seek to entice them. Research I just did shows that 60% of women still feel stereotyped by advertisers. I’d love to see more female creatives AT THE TOP so we can start controlling the way the media portrays us. It would be better for our clients bottom line and better for women’s image in our culture.

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Interesting post adding the US perspective Mary Dean, so thank you.

But a CD not only using and believing in research, and what’s more it is “research I just did” !?! Wow, the US ad industry must be SO different to Australia, because a commonly heard mantra DownUnder is that “research kills good advertising”.

Mind you, I agree that M/F mindsets are different and that in many cases men don’t get women’s mindsets (and vice verse) hence the balance needs to be redressed. It’s just like the US don’t get the Australian mindset when it comes to cricket and eating chicken.

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I’m not the enemy Lavinia. I employee men and women in equal numbers and in senior positions. I’m just asking you to consider how extra essential it is for small businesses to ensure stability and continuity with its client relationships. For an agency, without the financial and human resources of a Clems to have to inform their clients every year they’ll be having someone new running their business is not without risk to the agency/client relationship, the business, and therefore, the financial security of all its employees, men and women. In fact, this is exactly the sort of instability in smaller agencies that often drives them to the Clems of this world. Perhaps you would think differently if it was you who took the financial risk associated with starting your own business, or it was you, both the men and women you employ are relying upon to pay their mortgages and put their kids through school. This is not a simple black and white issue. It’s more complicated than most people imagine.

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I am female. I am a Creative Director. I am of Asian heritage. I have mentored and encouraged many women in the industry. I live in Melbourne. Perhaps I could be considered an anomaly?

Yes, I worked bloody hard to get where I am and am proud of my efforts. I have certainly witnessed some awful instances of gender based bias and harassment over the last 20years. By the same token I have seen a culture of bullying amongst ambitious men in the industry, but the comprehension of this has made me even more tenacious. It’s a quality many senior people share, regardless of gender.

If you love what you do, you don’t throw in the towel easily.

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I have a female CD at management level. Our workplace is very forward-thinking and allows her to balance her work hours with home hours. She manages amazingly. Technology also allows her to be available to us when we need her and she’s not physically in the office. She does a fantastic job. It takes a village…

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Geez, hope I don’t catch “snow blindness”.

Seriously, I’ve employed, males, females, blacks, whites, yellows, browns, people from adelaide and even some sickly grey poms. You’d hope people were employed/promoted on their application, performance, attitude etc, but sadly this is not always the case. Females get it tough in advertising, there is a boys club. I think the key to overcoming/coping with this is to firstly realise it’s true, secondly, work out how you’re going to approach it and thirdly, leave your employer if you think you’re no chance of realising your full potential and go work for someone else. If you find a place where you can realise your potential, stay there, work hard and get your just rewards.

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It would seem that agencies on the media side of our industry may have seen a more equal (although not perfect) representation. Several females have run agencies over the years, including Mandy Henry, Belinda Rowe, Tracie Michael and Anne Parsons. At the director level there are countless females who are highly successful and have great careers ahead of them. In fact, in many agencies the number of women outnumbers the number of men.

There is still an unequal ratio of male office heads, but I think this will definitely change in the future. In all my time within media, gender has never come anywhere near to influencing who gets what position.

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I agree Chris. When I first moved media-side from research a decade or so ago, I was struck by the preponderance of females. I also agree that at the uppermost levels media agencies are still male dominated, but does have a history of EXCELLENT female executives.

You only need look at the MFA run by the indefatigable Carol Morris, with NGen run by Xiao Houghton, and Education run by Linda Wong – I’ll be in skirt before you know it!

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In reply to “A Fact” – you are simply hiding chauvinism behind a threadbare excuse. I grew an agency from2 people to 150 people with around 50% female senior managers. At present half our creative directors are female, and over half of our senior execs are female. Talent crosses gender, crosses race and in the creative industries this should outweigh the bias that sadly taints some of the comments above. Your loss is our gain, Reading Room embrace talent wherever it is found. So girls (and boys and indeed those unsure) if you want to be taken seriously for what you are independent of gender come talk to us.

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I am a woman and I consider myself to be very thorough, however I am not creative at all. An example would be when I knit a jumper; the quality is the highest of high, however the patterns can be boring.

My husband is an interior designer. After I have washed and ironed his shirts he will often advice me on where to hang them in the wardrobe so that they look pleasant in our wonderful bedroom.

Our relationship works very well indeed. Tonight I am cooking us lamb shanks (his favourite.)

Good Day

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