UM’s Mat Baxter says industry should stop apologising for long hours

Well said young man.

I agree fellow GenY’s should stop complaining about the hours that come with a job in media.
But I do vehemently disagree with Mr Baxter comparing an agency job with work in med, law or banking.
Doesnt take a genious to see the reward or remuneration stacks up much better outside of the media game! There is no way a law grad would accept $40k a year to slog their guts out…

Putting in the extra hours for little to no recognition and unreasonable monetary returns should not be seen as industry standard.

Doctors, Lawyers and Finance people work harder because the numerical incentive is there. This doesn’t exist in the early years of media; which has some of the lowest entry level wages across any tertiary qualification requiring industry.

As the wise Ashton Kutcher once said” Opportunity looks a lot like hard work”

How come every time somebody mentions high industry turnover it’s in the context of their agency being lower than the average? We can’t all be below the average can we?

I would be better off working at McDonald’s on a 15yr olds wage. If the industry would like juniors to work more hours, they need to step up their remuneration to make this a fair exchange.

Well said Junior, could not agree more.

Our industry is built upon style over substance and attracts like minded people.

It pays peanuts, but features fancy job titles feeding upon Gen Y’s ego.

The industry is 80 per cent women. They last five years, marry, quit and have babies. Those that remain and choose not to have kids tend to be mean.

Disappointing to hear this from someone I so look up to.

While I agree that for success, one must work hard, I do not agree with the industry’s tendency to exploit young people with the promise of some illustrious career that most of them will never achieve.

As a ‘survivor’ of the advertising industry, I can safely say that I was exploited (not to mention bullied by my so-called-superiors) and that is why I left. I’m sorry, but it’s not just “when you’re working on a pitch”, it’s EVERY DAY. And it’s *expected*, not *appreciated*. And you don’t get paid to work until 10pm every night or come in on weekends.

In fact you don’t get paid much, period. Granted, UM is a long way ahead of some of the other agencies in terms of conditions and pay, but it’s still not okay to expect people to work for free ’til all hours under the promise of a rise from Account Coordinator to Account Executive in a year’s time – whoopie doo, I’m slightly less of a sh*% kicker now. Praise the Lord, ring the bells! Release the motherf^&ing doves!

Thanks, but no thanks. I’ll carve my own path outside the industry. I’m working less and earning more because I didn’t get sucked in to this vapid industry and it’s stupid false promises.

Whichever way you slice it, the industry needs to wake up that this isn’t okay. And FYI, Gen Y’s are not “happy to do it”, they think they *have to* do it, so they do. If they all actually spoke up and said “no, we won’t be exploited” then things would change. But people are pathetically apathetic. Shame.

Everyone has a choice so if working long hours is what you believe will get you the kind of career success you are chasing then go for it! The problem is that some leaders assume that everyone should want and believe in this very thing and the underlying message is if they don’t, their job is not secure. Work for an agency/ management that has the same values as you and all will be happy!

Two points:
– I don’t believe I need to work longer hours to show that I’m awesome at my job.
– And if I’m working the overtime your talking about – you need to employ more people or as others have said, pay us more.

Oh, and don’t try to regale us with tales of how lawyers work so much harder than us. They get paid commensurate with their hours. We don’t.

This is coming from a guy who earns more than I would as a “young staff” in 3 years. Getting paid pennies to stay back until 8pm every night and come in early (which impacts your personal life) is something that should be removed as the norm in the industry.

Mr Baxter shows once again that senior management have no idea on what goes on at the bottom of the industry food chain.

@Junior and @Scoop – the financial rewards are there (eventually) for the high achievers. You have to put in the work though.

Agencyland: Say goodbye to your existing friends and family, we will replace them here.

I didn’t leave to have babies and I take exception to the suggestion that I am therefor mean, cynical etc…

The fact is that these day, whether you’re a man or a woman, once you have kids, you are no longer the same person that is represented on your CV – you can’t be. All your priorities change with kids and family.

I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with that but this industry needs to start realising the massive impact that ‘3 days a week’ is having…

Going to be a very homogenous industry if that’s the case Mat. No diversity, just a certain type of ‘go-getter’, over and over again, everywhere. I personally welcome perspectives at work from people who actually have a life, hobbies, kids, rather than those that just work and nothing else.

I agree Junior. it also concerns me that Mat seems to think that the one reason agency staff work long hours is when there’s pitches. In the several media agencies i have worked in, it’s the norm whether there is a pitch on or not.

The low pay, long hours and lack of recognition is why so many agency grunts end up jumping the fence to sales, or even leaving the industry, after serving out less than 5 years.

To everyone saying you get rewarded for your efforts…

I and many of my colleagues have worked on various award winning campaigns in many agencies. We never made it to an award ceremony. That privilege was left to people higher up the chain who barely touched the projects.

The truth of it is, if you want to make it up the ladder you need to get shit on your nose. Show up to the parties, snort coke with the suits and CD’s and stroke their ego’s.

The success of the industry might be built on the back of hard work, but that hard work is not rewarded. That’s why agencies have such a huge number of contractors and a revolving door for creatives.

Compensate people for their time and you won’t have to apologise for long hours. Also this mirage of title bumps often benefits the agency more then the Gen Yer, as they are able to up the rate they bill them out at.
There is a reason that top talent is turning away from the industry despite it being so dynamic and interesting.

*Just a Girl* – nice reality check!!

If only SAGE had lived up to it’s name and delivered similar wisdom.

If you’re constantly working long hours and lots of overtime, you’re doing it wrong.

Either:
1) You’ve got a prick of a boss
2) You’re wasting time at work and not doing it in the allotted time
3) You need more staff
4) You’re an idiot. Get out of the office, there are far more important things in life

Late nights/all-nighters are fine in pitch mode or when you’re occasionally under the crunch, but if your staff constantly work late you need to hire more or look at what you’re doing wrong as a manager. Particularly if its junior staff with little to gain whilst you sit back on the big bucks.

Staff don’t prove their worth by the hours they work. At least not in my book.

Newsflash young struggling Gen Y’s!

Everyone who actually sticks around the industry for any length of time has usually worked their butt off to do so. Sadly all of this hard work at lower salaries tends to be a complete waste of time in the end as there is no real long term career path in agencies at all.

Those in their nervous thirties are constantly looking over their shoulders at people who are younger and cheaper who by their own definition claim to be digital natives who are the future and everyone else should be cast aside.

The natural solution to this is to hire women who automatically leave at their “use-by-date” to have babies only to be replaced with the next crop of young mostly female hopefuls who will eventually be spat out in the same manner of natural attrition. This keeps costs down as there is a steady stream of slaves willing to throw themselves at the feet of agencies who will naturally pay them accordingly.

Now if you are a guy who expects some kind of career path to extend through and beyond the baby and child raising years of increasing expenses, you have probably realised by now by looking ahead of you, that there are very few guys of this age group. You are physically incapable of fitting into the preferred cost control/natural attrition model.

Enjoy your trumped up titles without real experience as long as you can whilst you continually switch between numerous jobs for another $5K -$10K believing you that you actually have a future.

Look ahead of you. A real future in the industry with depth and longevity is quite often simply a myth!

Burning the midnight oil should be the exception. Not the rule.

Hi everyone,

Judging by some of the commentary here I wanted to clarify a few things.

Of course I don’t endorse the exploitation of young people. Nor do I believe that long hours should be the norm in our industry. I also believe in diversity and encourage workplace flexibility. Hopefully this is proven by UM being ranked Australia’s 11th best place to work by BRW (which included an assessment by our own staff) – the highest of any company in the marketing, advertising or media industries.

What about this fandangled thing we get told by society:
“Work Life Balance”?

And what of family? Will they see the rewards when they are dead and we have a career and the regret of never spending time with them?

Go listen to “Cats in the cradle” Mat.
Here is the link to save you time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSwL9deXNW8

The great thing I can say about Bohemia is that it’s great to see an agency walk the talk when it comes to talent and culture.

I spent 4 years in agency land and the last 18 months of it being expected to work until 9 or 10pm every night (whether there was a pitch or not). The result? Moved no farther forward in my career, was too tired to have a social life and my husband left me because I was no longer the ‘happy go lucky’ person I used to be. I quit, went client side, got a 70% pay rise and now work 9 – 5. My advice? Get out whilst you can peeps.

I suspect that if agencies started paying by the hour, they would for some reason start taking notice and encourage all staff to leave on time.

Good article but it should be up to the individual and not the company.

I started in 06 and purposely came in early, left late and took on twice the work that everyone else did as I wanted to prove something and step up in my career.

7 years on I now run a company and looking at todays workforce it seems that all the work I put in is considered the norm so it is harder than ever to separate yourself from everyone else.

Let’s also think about where the industry is going with trading and programmatic, is there a race not for money or seniority… but just to keep a job? I love this industry but I would not like to enter it right now.

It’s ok to work long hours at little pay when starting out.
We’ve all done it.
And are probably better for it.
But if the rewards (not title bumps) don’t come in and you are still renting a room while looking at the wrong end of 35, you’re either crap at your job or your company is treating you like a doormat.
Change job, change industry.
Or both.

Mat the article is headed with your quote of ‘the industry should stop apologizing for long hours’ so no wonder the outcry.

If you believe that long hours should not be the norm in the industry, then to be congruent, indeed the industry should apologize for long hours! The world is changing. In fact it has changed already. Support individuals to have a balanced life and value the contribution that they give your company during the hours that they are paid for.

If you want to keep a competitive edge then nurture and ehance employee’s creativity instead of expecting them to slog harder.

I am very torn by this article. I understand where Mat is coming from but at the end of the day, he is in a position of power to disrupt the status quo of long working hours. Instead he has chosen to continue to propel this culture.

I would argue that most people are happy to stay back to get a campaign across the line or whilst in pitch mode. The problem is when this becomes the norm. If I can do my job at a level I am proud of and that the client is happy with, why should I stay back because dickhead co-worker #1 has spent all morning watching YouTube videos, only to feel the pressure to burn the midnight oil because he wasted all morning?

Gen-Y’s want to succeed. We’re passionate, and for the most part, love what we do. Nurture that, promote a positive work environment that manages work/life balance and pay us better.

The minimum wage in Australia is $33,500. The advertising industry pays as little as $35k as a starting salary. Plus you must have undergrad qualifications as a MINIMUM, not even mentioning work experience.

It is THE lowest professional starting salary out of all industries …even nursing and teaching, which unions are so often up in arms about.

Then, on top of this, Baxter says we shouldn’t apologise for 10-15 hour work days?! There are bottom-of-the-food-chain Gen Ys who have moved cities to take up roles. Gen Ys who are genuinely struggling. When Ad Execs started, rent in Sydney was not $300/w. Rent in Melbourne was not $250. Cost of living, everything is higher.

Yet agencies still feel it’s kosher to pay minimum wage and respond “it’s a rite of passage …suck it up sunshine” -when the world has changed.

Wake up Baxter. Peddling your ill-considered opinions to the masses has dangerous consequences for those at the top who don’t give a damn about what’s “fair” or what’s “healthy”. There are too many who are willing to exploit and you are contributing to their justification.

I find Max Baxter’s comments quite disturbing and ignorant coming from the mouth of a CEO. He’s clearly out of touch with reality.

Lets face it, the lifeblood of your company are the Gen Y’s, slaving away whilst you’re schmoozing with big wigs about town eating prawn sandwiches and sipping on champagne, “adding value” to the relationship. Give me a break.

News flash – long hours are downright unhealthy, puts pressure on relationships/family, compromises life. Junior staff in media agencies aren’t paid as much as doctors, bankers, lawyers. If you bothered to read BRW Mat, you would have guessed as much.

Also, working hard doesn’t guarantee success. It isn’t as formulaic as that Mat. Otherwise you’d be out of a job and replaced by harder workers than yourself. Luck, nepotism, mateship, playing the dirty corporate political game are as much a driver of success if not more.

As a CEO you ought to know better. In a few years time they’ll be knocking on your door taking your job. Run to your next post in asia or wherever whilst you still can.

It’s pretty fundamental: Agencies whore themselves out promising the world for a handful of peanuts and upon winning a business there’s simply never enough money retained to provide the level of service. Sad but true

The sad reality is, success in any discipline in the broad marketing field (media, creative, PR, etc) seems to be built on the willingness of people to give huge chunks of their time away for free. The fallacy here is that it is just when you have a pitch on. And can the financial rewards really be compared to banking, law or medicine? Not in my experience. Personally if I worked for Mr Baxter and read these comments (while he himself was out of the office, at a conference) I would be pretty disappointed.

everyone that starts out in any career should be prepared to put in the hard yards. that’s precisely the time to do it. get involved in everything. put the effort in early before you have kids and set yourself up for the future. commonsense IMO.

@social commentator

Wow, did that spray feel good?

It’s ironic that you say I’m out of touch with reality and then proceed to create your own with generalisations about what I do with my day. I can assure you that most of my time is spent working hard leading my agency and not “schmoozing with big wigs about town eating prawn sandwiches and sipping on champagne”.

Perhaps you can channel some of that negativity into a more constructive pursuit. Also, I’d be happy to meet with you and explain in person how my career was built through hard work and not the “luck, nepotism, mateship, playing the dirty corporate political game” you accuse me of. Of course, this would mean you would need to be brave enough to step out from behind your anonymous keyboard and call my office on (02) 9994 4200 with your real name to set it up. I somehow doubt I’ll be hearing from you.

Part of being a grown up and contributing to meaningful discourse is putting a name to your comments and like me be willing to stand by your opinions.

A little less trolling would do this industry a world of good.

While many white collar jobs expect overtime to be worked without additional payment or time in lieu, it is in most cases a breach of your employment contract to work over 38 hours a week. Proving that additional hours are required can be difficult however sometimes employers go and write articles saying that they are, which may make it easier. They must be reasonable hours of additional work,

If you’re overworked please feel free to contact the fair work ombudsman. If you want to work long hours go ahead but if you are being compelled to then your employer may be breaking the law and you may be able to be paid of overtime and lost super. Regardless diary notes of hours work may prove handy as well as emails that request or instruct you to work long hours. Just because it’s expected doesn’t mean it’s right.

Agency work is a lifestyle and in a third world country you’ve got the fortune of choosing lifestyle. The mistake is expecting to be automatically promoted from working long hours alone. Be devious, act a bastard, don’t complain about the free drinks and play the game.

That’s a long thread. We’ll done Mat. As usual, you’ve struck another cord!!

Mat, I have better things to do than meet or chat with you. As a CEO, I am quite disappointed in how you project yourself
to the industry and others outside of the industry. Imagine how your employees would feel after reading the transcript of
your speech?

Also, you should watch how you phrase your language

“leading my agency”

Newsflash – you don’t own the agency, you’re an employee just like the rest and therefore replacable just like everyone else.
Also, you aren’t “leading” the agency. You are managing a group of employees. I’m sure there are people brighter than yourself
working “for you” who wouldn’t appreciate your tone of phrase.

Hi Mat. I really felt compelled to respond to your piece. When I first started as a junior creative in a big Sydney ad agency 4 years ago I had just turned 20. A ‘kid’ who’d moved hundreds of kilometres from home to the big city for my big break. I was just what you said – so driven and motivated that I was 100% willing to put in the ‘extra time and effort to succeed’. But I think there is a line. Agencies seem all to willing to cross it, go miles beyond it in fact, and the sad thing is, it’s opinions like yours from a management position that add fuel to the fire.

The earliest I would leave on a weeknight was 9 or 10pm. I regularly found myself alone in the office at 3am. I rarely ate dinner, unless there were enough other people working late so we could put some takeaway on the agency. Otherwise, I was left to eating chips from the agency’s snack cupboard. I was in the office every second weekend. I missed my sister’s wedding working on a pitch – every night until 3am or 4am, then getting back up for work at 9am. That’s like 2 hours sleep. Friends who work in law and finance (occupations you reference as working just as hard) regularly expressed their outrage at my working situation, to which I defended, ‘it’s just the way the ad industry works’. And all this for the generous package of 35k (including super…).

Sure, it was my own choice to put in these hours, and my driven personality didn’t help, but the agency was without a doubt taking advantage of me and my age. Although it was my passion and goals that had me there late at night, the agency’s ‘at all cost’ attitude was also to blame. Suits briefing in creative at 5 on a Friday and wanting to go back to client on Monday? Please.

I’ve since moved overseas I’m getting paid double in a better agency. I still work the long hours, but not as extreme as the last place. And makes it easier when you’re getting paid what you’re worth.

Interested to know if you think I should have just ‘like, got over it?’

Cheers.

I’d just like to say that I don’t appreciate people attacking Mat. He’s an inspirational industry figure and a REALLY nice guy. He’s not in the slightest bit an industry wanker. He certainly doesn’t schmooze and eat prawn sandwiches. What are prawn sandwiches? Is that a thing? Because if it is then I quit life.

Anyway, while I don’t agree with what he’s saying in this article either, there’s no need to attack him. I’m someone who’s been deeply affected by Long Agency Hours but it’s not like Mat is the one who decided everyone needs to work long hours, so cool it with the personal attacks.

Long hours are an unfortunate trend that needs to stop, just like anonymously attacking people over the Internet.

And yes, I’m aware that I’m not using my real name.

If you’re that spineless that you missed your own sister’s wedding because of a pitch then a huge part of the problem to your being exploited lies with your complete and utter inability to stand up for yourself. It is also shameful that anyone would expect or put pressure on someone to miss a milestone life event for something as meaningless by comparison as a pitch. Thank god I run a solo agency and am spared the insidious ‘kulcha’ that chews up people and spits them out on the other side.

Talk about long hours is extraneous without talking about productivity.

This is anecdotal. But the people I have seen promoted within agencies are the people who perpetuate false myths about long hours resulting in better work or think that is the way to get promoted. But it has been shown that after a certain point of hours worked diminishing returns of productivity are reached. So what are most people doing in their 12-hour days? Yes, they are sometimes needed, but it should not be the norm.

It would take a brave leader to acknowledge this and actively encourage a laser focus on work for the hours people are paid to work. Who is more productive – a burned-out, underpaid, cynical, stressed worker whose relationships are going by the wayside and who is on a contract for a 40-hour week but getting paid for 70. Or a happy, focused, motivated person who feels their workplace is looking out for them?

I hate the perception that Gen Y are unwilling to “put in the hard yards”, that we need to “suck it up”.

The market has changed, you can no longer enter an agency at the bottom e.g. reception and work your way up. Today all Gen Yers trying to get into the industry have spent at least 3 years getting a uni degree so that their CVs get through the door. Some of us have done a Masters to try stand out from the crowd – does this count as part of the hard yards?

We then slog through 6 – 12 months of unpaid work as interns because we know they need that experience for any chance of an interview. We know most of these internships are dead ends because we’re told this in the interviews – “we’re not really hiring at the moment but we can promise real work experience”. This never gets mentioned as part of the hard yards. (this cycle is even worse in the US where HBR wrote a piece on the cycle of perpetual internships).

If we do get offered a position we accept minimum wage because we know how tough it is out there, we all have friends struggling to find a job and any job is better than no job. We work hard and put in the hours for much less than our peers. Eventually we have enough and use the experience we gained to jump ship client side. You still have to work hard but have more breathing room not just for a social life but training and development.

@Mat if UM is the exception from this you should be commended but as someone who left the industry 6months ago – along with many other Gen Y peers, this attitude towards young talent is not sustainable.

As more top young grads jump to client side the industry may find the smartest people in the room are sitting on the other side of the table.

Look at the young guns who by middle 30’s were burnt out and slumped at their desk. The list is endless with people who just went for X I am required to work inordinately ridiculous hours. They are now doing whatever they want to do and last time I saw the one’s I know, they were happy campers. The sad thing is that a few had to spend time under doctors orders in a place no one wants to go to get better.

It won’t change unless the supply changes.

There is a consistent stream of university graduates wanting to get their ‘foot in the door’, willing to work long hours for low pay. And they’re fighting off hundreds of other applicants for the privilege.

If you don’t want to do it, there are others who will.

It’s not right, but that’s the nature of the game.

Constant firefighting. Jumping thru hoops in response to clients’ whims , or those created by inapt and insecure bosses, working with peers who keep the entire production chain in paralyses because they wasted time with their coffee runs, smoke breaks, boozy lunches, corridor flirtatious, water cooler trivia, YouTube , FB crap is why productivity is so crap.

Compounded with the general understaffed ratios where the great and the good have to work alongside the order takers and the credit robbers.

Long hours aside, the internal pay bumps are so insignificant that job hopping is the only way up so talent defects.

It’s a vicious circle.

As an ex-CEO of an agency, I am shocked that Mat cannot see that this is an industry problem aggravated by poor internal management. This is something we should be ashamed off not to be proud of.

I used to work along side my staff chalking in 70 hr weeks. Up to a point where I realised the effort cannot overcome an industry that’s broken .

I am not alone. Some of my management team has left to set up boutiques where they are happier , respected and still doing what’s they loved in the first place.

Me? Became a client with a less fancy title, leave the office by 6 every day. And got a 1/3 pay bump.

As a female aged 22 working working in the advertising industry for the past 4 years. I find it extremely degrading to read “sccops’ comments about women lasting 5 years in advertising then marrying and having babies or becoming sour and mean. Talk about throwing us back into the 1950’s!

I have worked my ass off and advanced accordingly. Yes, I stay back late when it’s required, but I don’t set the standard of doing it everyday! Yes work has to be done, and yes we have deadlines but leaving at 6pm isn’t going to be the end of your career and is a client really going to be responding to something you send them at 1.30am, no! So it can wait until the morning.

I refuse to be working in an environment were Senior Management expects me to sacrifice my happiness and my wellbeing for the sake of business. I choose to work in an environment where people from the bottom to the top up support and empower each other and that’s the environment where people thrive and great ideas are made!

A healthy work life balance is the key to a long plentiful career.
Switching off and not being at the beck and call of our clients are employers is also the key to setting the standard of what is expected of us.

Just because we are “at the bottom of the food chain” doesn’t mean our superiors have the right to dictate or discriminate us for leaving at 5.30pm when our life outside the office calls.
When you are in senior management or CEO roles you are remunerated for your longer hours, travelling and at times sacrificing personal life for the sake of your agency & clients- it’s in the job description and you have more invested both professionally and personally.

I often see people staying back night and night again, to ridiculous hours outside of pitch time, but I think to myself- I too am growing, developing and learning just as much as them but the difference is I am not burning myself out and hating my job. I come to work fresh and ready to work hard and can guarantee I’ll stay that way for many many years to come, unlike my unhappy counterparts.

I have watched this feed with interest over the last day . I rarely choose to comment. I think having this forum to express opinion is a valuable thing for the industry , but when it starts to get in to the ” personal” side , and gets ugly , which it so often does , I find myself questioning why am I even reading this .Have I become a passive watcher, happy to sit back and see someone get crucified for expressing a view .? Well , not this time.

Matt has expressed a view and no where in his post did I see him say anything other that he believes that young people want to succeed and are prepared to work hard to do so.
To ” Just a girl ” , whoever you are , good on you for honest comments , that were then followed up with a defence of Matt. You have expressed a view , made your point , not been personal and you are happy to articulate your position with clarity and poise.

I do know Matt. have known him since his early days at Zenith, do not see him around much these days , but have dealt with him a lot in his time at Naked and UM .

He is a brilliant operator, has always had time for people, is a genuinely nice guy, has done nothing except carve out a brilliant career through talent and hard work . He has too had some knocks along the way like all of us .

To ” social commentator”. you have chosen to go where you should not . Personal. ill informed, too afraid to use your name . Matt replied courteously to you and you could not help yourself with a continued tirade of abuse. You look like an idiot

Matt, thank you for your opinion on this subject. I think the work hour thing is a huge issue in this industry , some kids are getting smashed unfairly and some great people leave . Your point though is that working hard is something that young people are willing to do , I agree and this should be encouraged.

I knew Matt when I was single and doing the hard yards , i am now married with 2 young children , working harder than ever before but hopefully one day it will be worth it and my kids will thank me for giving them a good life . So for me , I am going to keep working as hard as I can . This does not mean 14 hour days ever day , just when it is required !!

This is a really interesting topic. Like, I believe, many commenters, I have been through the crucible, and am torn on the subject as well. Like all of us, I retain a little bit of the bitterness and muscle memory and schoolyard hierarchic mentality that shouts “I did it, so you should too”. But another part of me feels compassion for people, especially young and naive people, who feel they are being exploited and don’t have a choice.
To them I say – you do have a choice. To the bitter old ones – you did too. You always did. It may not have been a good choice, but somewhere along the line you chose the long hours and the grind. Pity the children working in factories, in sexual slavery, who genuinely have no choice – don’t pity yourself (or doctors or lawyers). I can’t speak for you, but here’s my personal story that I believe I have seen mirrored many times since:
I learned pretty quickly that this industry is extremely competitive and my colleagues were my rivals as much as they were friends. I wanted to be a success, like Mr Baxter says, and to do that I felt I had to prove my indispensability. I did not have the skill or the confidence to do this through the quality of my work, though I did my best, so I chose doggedly to display quantity instead: long hours, tenacity, gallows humour. It was exhausting and it was rewarding. I complaind a lot, made great friends, became very unhealthy, and I did win the respect of my superiors. I never was much of a success in the media industry and I eventually left: burned out, disillusioned and feeling like I had been chewed up and spit out. I found a better job, which restored balance, and found hindsight, which restored perspective. Yes, I was exploited, and yes I allowed it to happen to me. I was lucky in the end, I realise that, and to those who are in that situation I wish you all the luck I had, and the courage I eventually found. As a trainer once told me, the cemetery is full of indispensable men.
Everyone knows the media agency industry is circling the drain, in a race to the bottom. Some people will win out of that – maybe you – and a lot of people will lose. That’s the way it is in a meritocracy, that’s the way it is in a capitalist system. If you think you can win, you WILL have to work like f*ck to do it. If you think you will lose, it’s on you to get out. You have been warned.
To Mr Baxter – it’s a fine line you walk between candour and callousness. I have never worked for you or with you so cannot judge you on your actions, and won’t do so on your words. I’m grateful to you for raising the issue again.

I read this article last night at around 1am. I was sitting at my desk in the office, taking a breather after a stressful evening completing work to have it finished before today. I was not in here alone, there were a few of us in here – why? To keep the client happy. I’m a partner at the agency, and am a firm believer that your staff will follow your lead. If my staff work late, they’re working on something important – something I want to have an input on. I highly doubt Mat works 9am-5pm, then goes and “snorts coke”, or “eats prawn sandwiches.” I guarantee you that, like the rest of us, he is going home, checking his emails, thinking about what he has to do the next day, and getting an early night because he has an 8am meeting with a client.

Without clients, there is no industry. With so much competition, each agency needs to differentiate themselves from the rest. When your product is your people, I believe your people need to do what is required to keep ahead of the rest and keep clients happy. If that means working long hours every so often, suck it up and put in the hard yards. If you don’t, your competitors will and your clients will leave.

All the people commenting here saying that working hard doesn’t pay off aren’t doing it right. Speaking from the perspective of an owner, our agency needs to work hard to compete with other agencies. From the perspective of an employee, he/she needs to work hard to compete with other employees. It’s dog eat dog, and everyone needs to stop complaining.

And finally, for those complaining about work/life balance, you aren’t in the right industry and you clearly hate what you do. I don’t know about everyone else here, but I get more satisfaction watching one of my ads screen on TV than I do from going out for dinner. And if you don’t, you’re clearly in the wrong game.

I don’t think Mr Baxter has any clue what his juniors are earning in relation to the amount of hard work they put in. It even shows his relationship across staff at UM. How closed he is when it comes to associating his staff down the rank? Try to be more open to your junior staff.
I am a mother of two who stayed up late on very rare occasion but what I am earning today is not because I worked beyond 5:30 pm but because I put in 100% effort in my work and produced quality work.
Entry level Lawyers and Doctors get paid double of what juniors in media get so if they work their butt off…can you justify Mr Baxter?

I seem to remember reading in BRW’s best places to work section that at UM “nobody works past 6pm.” This seems at odds with the story above. I’m confused.

Well said young people. You all deserve to walk into high paying, 9-to-5 jobs on day one.

@Alex…well said!

I have managed graduate programs on both agency and client side and it is harder and harder to attract graduates to either. Graduates have every opportunity to read threads like this and draw their own conclusions…and do! Across every industry including agencies and many client side environments, you will find a workplaces with varying degrees of toxicity.

After years of study and slave-like internships it can be difficult to accept finding yourself on the bottom rung on the ladder of an agency being paid peanuts. Beyond lectures and assignments candidates need abilities that can’t be studied into you. Natural ability and nous, enthusiasm, passion, street smarts and more.

After many years on both sides of the fence, I’m a cynical but hopefully still positive supporter of the industry. But I am beginning to think that perhaps many entrants into the industry may be believing all the froth, bubble and fake glamour the industry presents upfront. Eventually they find they have actually set their sights very low and discover hours of lowly paid grunt work. If they stick at it they may have some time in sun but careers in the industry are notoriously short.

I started on the bottom rung over 20 years ago (so I have lasted longer than most) and worked huge hours for little money. Through hard work and persistence I built a career that eventually paid very well which I have enjoyed immensely.

But like many of my colleagues who exited a lot earlier than me, I eventually found the industry quite wrongly is finished with you all too soon when you have built a knowledge base including digital that you hungered to gain during the lean poorly paid years.

If the industry is to have a future it needs to stop treating people as disposable commodities. Incorporate mentors within agencies on a part time basis who can actively encourage, gently prod and even apply the brakes when necessary. I had the pleasure of working with a number of them earlier in my career and there are immense numbers of people on the outside of the industry who are ready to undertake these roles now.

If you are a graduate reading this, think carefully about your next move and good luck!

Thanks everyone for the great viewpoints… It’s been very interesting!! Whether you support the old school 80’s industry extremities of ‘work hard, play hard’ and ‘put in the hours to get ahead’ or you have joined the new paradigm shift of ‘healthy balance with appropriate reward and recognition’ does it matter?

We are ALL entitled to our opinions. There will be another leader out there with public reach who will support the latter when given an opportunity to be a speaker and take heart from the above… We are not alone in how we feel about industry expectations!!

Here’s to the creative revolution!

Well said @Tony

There are plenty of anecdotes of people who rose to the top through hard work. But there are many more people left by the wayside.

I got out relatively early (before 30) and live a much more balanced life now.

At the end of the day agencies exist for their clients, not their employees. Look after yourself and don’t expect the producer/traffic manager/suit to recognise your efforts and reward you for it.

The responses to this article are everything that’s wrong with the industry at the moment. If you are working hours you aren’t feeling compensated for or comfortable with then raise it *in person* with your superiors. Surely the article is directed at the exact moaning that is being voiced here, you control your own choices for your employment and career.

Don’t know Mat Baxter but anyone insinuating that all he does is *schmooze* as the CEO of a leading media agency has clearly misplaced their marbles…

@Mat Baxter

The comments made by Social Commentator were not “trolling” – This person is giving an opinion that didn’t agree with yours, that was a legitimate contribution to this discussion. Apparently, as the “leader” of an agency, you are surrounded by so many “yes” people, that should anyone disagree with you, you’re inviting them to brave up and call you for a larger verbal about it.

Puh-lease.

Your attitude stinks. You get concerned if people develop an unhealthy obssession with Advertising, yet, your office culture is about making their lives about their industry and the outcome of their work. You offer life coaches to your staff in case they have any concerns in their life they need help with, while you tell them to “get over” working all hours of the day and night to meet a pitch deadline. So, you feel better by contributing a so called solution to the woes of your staff when your attitude, managerial expectations and how you run an agency in general are most likely contributing reasons that your staff might need a life coach or counsellor.

You are exploiting young staff – end of story. I started in advertising 8 years ago and was paid $28,500 INCLUDING SUPER because it was the best agency in town and I should have been grateful for the opportunity, even though I made less money than I did as a casual waitress while I was at uni. After 2 years of this pay rate, copious amounts of bullying from superiors, no support or training or advancement, and too many late nights at the agency to remember, I quit the ad world for good.

This toxic industry is eating away at great talent because of people like you that perpetuate attitudes that entry level go-getters need to be “working overtime, ALL the time” and to take what they can get (including giving up their right to work in a supportive workplace that cares about their greater needs as opposed to drones) to get ahead and take all the sh*t that their leaders throw at them.

Yes, if people want success they’ve got to put in the effort, but they shouldn’t have to give up their right to safe and supportive workplaces that have management that SINCERELY care about their well-being, a decent pay, and the opportunity to appreciate life outside of the agency.

Well done CJ for completely misrepresenting the issue at hand, the advertising industry salutes you and reminds you that you should be working.

It’s my not inconsiderable experience that many people in agency management are horrible at making key decisions, and terrible time managers. These bad habits get passed down the line and somehow along the way have been called ‘agency life’. Many so called industry leaders are wracked with insecurity over an approach or a recommendation. They can’t keep to a meeting schedule to save their lives. God it’s boring. And time consuming. Unless the decision is literally going to kill someone I am not going to lose sleep over it. It’s advertising, nothing more.

And puhlease….spare me the whole ‘my life becomes validated when I see my TV ads on screen’ wankery. Firstly, TV ads? Secondly, get a grip. You need to get out more.

There’s always a day or two that requires greater effort. But generally speaking, if you are consistently working through dinner, either you or the organisation is broken. And this includes the old ‘in order to please the client’ arguments. What rubbish. I’ve had this conversation with clients many times over the years. It’s called ‘setting boundaries’ and if you’re not prepared to do that with clients then you’re a bad manager, no two ways about it. Definitely not leadership material.

And as one of those mean old boilers previously alluded to, why should Gen Ys work longer? I learn more from my Gen Y colleagues than almost anyone with a C-title I know (and jeez is there anyone who doesnt have a C title these days? meaningless tosh). And we treat them like cannon fodder when reality is that in the not too distant future many of them will whip up a little start up business that’ll be much more appealing to forward thinking clients in no time at all (with highly flexible work benefits and innovative payment structures) while us dinosaurs are doddering around trying to dodge meteors.

Change your job or change your attitude – it’s that simple.

If you don’t want to work bloody hard please don’t ever ask me for a job.

Well said Mat.

Obviously Mat’s mates have joined the forum to go into bat for him.

Lets keep it real. What he’s and the tone in which its expressed has emanated from a place of complete naivety, inexperience with how to get the best of of “employees aka people working for the agency which I lead ” (“my agency”). I am dumbfounded as to how a CEO can communicate in such a manner to a public forum.

Mat, I’ll give you a call to discuss.

Thanks – Tony (CEO of botique agency)

Consider client side, kids. It may not be as sexy, but it pays off.

I’m a Marketing Manager in my mid-twenties. Sure, I did 12-14 hour days in my first year with a 40k salary, but I did it with the knowledge that it’d get better. If you work hard, meet deadlines and get along with most people, you’ll do well. You’ll need to accept some low pay for a few years and be willing to change jobs (not too frequently), but if you don’t become a manager within 5 years of starting out , or at least double/triple your starting pay, it might not be the career for you.

I probably work past 6pm twice a week, and eat lunch at my desk occasionally, but the rest of the time I’m able to get my work done within regular business hours (except for late night emails when required). I don’t have the luxury of a big team, but they’re an efficient team and if they’re working past 5.30/6 every day, I’m not doing my job of managing their workload and priorities correctly. If they’re staying back until 7/8pm prior to a big campaign going live, I’ll mentally keep track of it and get them to come in later another day in the week.

The demands placed on people who work agency-side seem ridiculous and the salaries are insulting. Unfortunately, I can’t see this changing because of the supply. If you’re a graduate and reading this, power to you if your passion is agency land. If you’re in two minds, think about what you want from your career and your life, and then seriously consider client side.

The difference between lawyers and doctors working long hours and young media professionals working long hours is essentially the pay. Advertising and Media are among the WORST junior/mid level salaries in the jobsphere, anyone denying it is lying through their teeth.

CEOs BDMs, and GMs believe that 35-40k a year to pay young media professionals and make them work from 730am-630 or 7pm is “standard” and “expected”, and all of those pathetic media events that you have to pretty much give up your real life for in order to please clients (to essentially make your boss who is on 250-350k a year look good) is also part of your “job”.

Yes, longer hours are wanted by juniors and mid level gen-Y and others for experience and networking, but to say employers shouldn’t feel bad about expecting this and then remunerating their staff with a slave trader wage is a disgrace.

Also in light of Felix’s cocaine comment, It is also expected that you rack up with clients in the bathroom at these events. This is especially relevant in the tv advertising industry (you all know who you are). The culture of “work is your life, drugs are a way to a client’s heart”, is unfortunately extremely familiar in the ad world. Which is why I left quick smart.

I am a 20 year old part-time student, currently in my second year of my advertising degree. I also work full-time on the client side and earn $62K. I also receive awesome benefits such as flexible study leave and reimbursement for uni fees. I am highly ambitious and have worked hard to get to where I am today. I began studying advertising with the intention that one day I could work in an agency, however articles like this have completely turned me off. Why would I sacrifice half my pay, only to double my hours and receive little to no recognition for efforts? This doesn’t add up and seems unethical on part of the employer. This culture is detrimental to the industry and should not be endorsed as standard industry practice.

Thomas Edison attributed his extraordinary success to the fact that he had never been restricted to or handicapped by having to work 9.00 till 5.00.

When dealing with products and services, items and raw materials that can be cut off by the meter and reshaped and resized via a set system or a template, then restricted hours are both appropriate and sensible.

When dealing with artistic merit and creativity, restricted time and space is nothing but a huge hindrance. Creativity takes time and it takes space, it demands intellect and energy beyond those applied in the mundane world. This is why the money people and the industrialists have long tried to cut, shape and define art, so that they could hack it off by the meter and invent ways of nailing and gluing it together to create a range of products. They have, of course, been only partly successful, and so they must use the hand with which they have been unable to restrict art, to administer the industrial restraint and pay-scale system.

The result is longer hours for little money or kudos. Not the ideal way to be working, but artistic creativity is and should be about things other than money, and though some payment is important and valid, and the money people have too much power and control, I would rather have it this way than not at all.

You wanna be in the circus kid? Get that bucket and brush and start sweeping the ring, the spangles and the bright lights will come later.

Really look forward to hearing if Social Commentator really has the guts to ring Matt and go and see him …. Tony the CEO , you missed ” u ” in boutique agency

Lady Gray, you and Social Commentator should get together for a lunch and compare notes , your post was excruciating !

oh and I am not a mate of Matt’s , just a colleague in the industry who has dealt with him over the years and rates him highly , actually have not seen him in ages ….we have never socialised or had coffee

Think you should both take a bex and have a nice lie down{ perhaps together } ….
…

Matt…. hold your head high !!

Client side is the way.

More power and better hours – and a larger pay packet.

And you can just be yourself. You don’t have to be always struggling to be the coolest, brightest, hippest whatever.

And the agency folk will all want to know you, because you represent a potential biz opp.

I rate Mat immensely. But I worked there. And I am older than Gen Y. It never changes. Leaving, whether it was by my own hand or theirs, rejoined me with my girl, gave me clarity and vigour towards the future, and helped me focus on what it is that is important in the work life balance field. Let’s not boo hoo the Gen Y’s – it’s a work ethic that if you let it, will dictate your entire working life. I’ve never been less than a 100% worker bee, but every now and then, it would have been nice to be rewarded. Either I simply wasn’t good enough, or else this thread is a very sad indictment on the chasm that has formed between management and the doers. But good on you Mat for being ballsy enough to spark what is truly a very passionate debate.

Boss Man says long hours for no money equals long term reward, eventually.

What was it Mumbrella, slow news day?

Ms social commentator I just want to say I can’t believe how rude and worked up u are. You’re also really wrong on lots of counts. Much love.

Not a comment on Matt or UM, as I don’t really know either.

However in my experience (across 17 years and three continents) is, it’s a management issue.

The agencies at which you consistently pull ludicrous hours – day after day, and not just during crunches/pitches – tend to be the poorly managed ones. The ones where management is either so inept that “perpetual chaos” is the modus operandi, or the ones where management is squeezing extra margin out by over-working the agency.

Well-run agencies tend to deliver a modicum of work-life balance.

I think it’s a dangerous myth for our industry to propagate that insane hours are necessarily par for the course. (That’s quantity over quality.)

Good managers manage the work-life balance of their employees. That’s what we need to be encouraging. If not, we’ll be even more fucked in the “war for talent” than we already are.

All perfectly reasonable comments, what happened to freedom of speech?

Mat, whichever which you look at it, you are a representative of the company that employs you and if that’s the view held by the company, I think you’re in serious trouble.

What a PR disaster.

It appears the whole “work long hours and you are a better employee” notion is really all about “being seen to be working”.

You are not being an efficient, effective employee who actually has a life and is aware of what goes on around them outside the artificial environment of an agency. Is it any wonder that the bulk of work coming out of the agency bubbles are cheesy situations imagined by ego maniacal agency people who don’t actually have a life??!!

Having sat in both agency and client chairs, the muffled laughter as most agencies left the room was priceless. The occasional realist on an agency team would eventually apologise for “creative” personalities stressing how many hours they had worked to justify another inflated invoice when the output was often stereotypical and predictable.

High staff turnover was inevitable. One agency wheeled out 5 key account service people in 3 years. Each one of them was pistol whipped into hating their jobs. The media agencies had just as high turnover usually with the whole business hanging on the shoulders of one exhausted person.

The only people who are impressed are those for whom every last dollar is squeezed. Clients are not impressed at all. As is evidenced by the many comments, there is always a willing crop of people who see it as their professional duty to not only encourage the behavior but demand it as the key to success in the industry. Kind of warped really!

B&T’s Media Agency and Network of the Year – the proof is in the pudding I guess.

If you’re working in a job that’s grinding you to dust, find a new job – it’s that simple. I’ve been an agency shitkicker and definitely agree that a lot (if not most) agencies are pretty shit working environments, but I’ve also found an agency where for 90% of the time I’m working comfortable hours where I don’t have to take home any work. For the other 10%, sure, I work crazy long but I’d challenge you to find any job that doesn’t have its ebbs and flows. At the same time, I’ve also been promoted multiple times within the past 12 months and am on a salary package/advancement trajectory that I’m super comfortable with.

One of the earlier commentators said that working in agency is a lifestyle. Absolutely. If you want a comfortable job with an immediately higher pay bracket, go client side. If, like me, you’re easily bored and want to work across a more diverse portfolio in a creative environment, then deal with the challenges of agency life. People on here have been saying that lawyers and doctors start on twice as much: that’s because the educative requirements are so much steeper. There’s give and take in every occupation which is something a lot of people on here can’t seem to comprehend. And yes, I am a member of Gen Y.

I actually agree with what Matt is saying here, however, I don’t think that all organisations feel the way he does. I am happy to put in long hours, to work hard, especially as a young person. It’s the time to do it. However, you need to be recognised in some small way for the contribution you are making. It doesn’t have to be money – we all know we aren’t going to be paid well – but just make us feel like we are of value to you. As soon as you devalue a person – they walk out the door.

IT GETS BETTER!

If you have the chops (patience, talent, thick-skin etc.) to stick it out and make it in this industry – then it certainly gets better.

With those goods to back you up you can choose where you want to work; have influence on the culture, the environment, the team around you; you can set the standard. You even get to pick the jobs you work on. And you certainly can get much better remunerated. – Often that means that no, the hours don’t change, the stress and responsibility only builds as you climb the ladder… but this is an industry I love. I have a career that I love, that i’m grateful to find work in… and i’m all too aware of the ever eager bunch of (maybe more talented) people snapping at my heels and just waiting to park their bum in my seat… so i’m going to work hard and not complain – because I know there are people who would jump at the chance to work in my role. No one is irreplaceable – so let’s all lose the sense of entitlement.

Yeah, it sucks when you’re a junior; minimum wage, ridiculously long hours (surviving on toast or pot noodles and 2 hours sleep) little or no thanks, forget a social life.. but all of that has shaped me into the person that I am today; the hard slog has given me a great work ethic, has made me a better worker, a better designer, a better negotiator, manager, friend.. the list goes on.

i certainly don’t want anyone, especially not my peers taken advantage of but if you are starting out and thinking that this industry is glamorous or a 9 to 5 – then best of luck to you and I hope you find that role.

and for everyone else .. stick it out, learn and absorb as much as you can and remember, like most things in life, it gets better!

damn! i’m going to have to work back late now, having spent so much time reading this long thread…

I’m shocked that no one is shocked at the poor grammar here. 🙂

Word to the wise, emotionally blackmailing people into working ridiculous hours is not how you run a business (or an industry for that matter).

No business needs to have people consistently working long hours, even an agency. If this is the culture at UM, and clearly it is, then one of three things is happening.

1. Management doesn’t know how to resource against scope.
2. Management lowballed to win client work, and the staff suffer so it can still be profitable.
3. There are major time management issues agency wide.

People working longs hours consistently is the fault of management, no one else.

All this crap about putting in the hours etc does not give management a free kick for being poor at running a business. A good business is measured by a lot more than the balance sheet.

Agencies that choose this culture, and to be clear it is a choice, know that they are relying on guilt from anyone who chooses to depart from their artificial norm. We all know productivity decreases with time, so long hours make no sense for anyone apart from the accounting department.

Give me someone who comes in and leaves at normal times over the person who toils all day if they have the same output. Excellence doesn’t need a timetable, and great advertising people know they have spend time observing the real world instead of living in a bubble.

A message to people who are in a culture where there is the unspoken rule that if you leave at normal times you will be frowned upon: get out!

There are plenty of agencies that don’t have that kind of culture. It is morally and ethically wrong, and you will be a better advertising professional if you get a life. Work your way to the top through your brilliance, not by putting in the long hours. We all have times when we have to put in crazy hours, but these should be the exception. Conserve all your energy for these moments, and sieze them when the time comes.

You deserve better.

You are NOT doctors, you do not work in medicine, you are not saving the world or even a few lives, quite simply…. you are NOT that important!

But if you value your career ahead of your life, then on you go, but dont expect everyone to feel the same.

Its just a job kids, it isn’t that important and neither are you.

Work to live, or live to work?

Workplace burnout is a serious issue. People dying because of overwork is as serious issue. And it’s happened in our industry to many, many beautifully minded, talented people.

There is a difference between working hard and working long. Long hours generally come from a few factors:

Lack of proper allocation of time/resource (all you clients talking about how good you have it don’t realise the karma that’s coming your way from the ridiculous demands you place on agencies. I wish you well with that.)

Lack of talent, meaning you have to work longer to get the same results a more capable person can get to, stemming usually from a boss who instills a lack of confidence into their organisation.

Lack of organisation, most people are twiddling their thumbs for hours in a day then burning the midnight candle to make up for it, and then…

Drive, willingness to succeed and ambition. The rarest of all reasons, but the reason I decided to forgo a girlfriend and lifestyle for five years to get where I am today. But that can only happen in an environment where opportunity to succeed is available, otherwise it leads to burnout, frustration and a career change.

Notice most of what I’ve said comes down to management and their decisions. The only factor that isn’t because of that, namely motivation, comes from the individual. Which means nobody, absolutely nobody, should be saying ‘we need to work longer’ (and bill more hours, burn people out). Instead, they should be hiring smart, motivated people who also know their limits and can express them in an assertive manner, preventing despondency, burnout, staff turnover and limited shelf lives.

The way I’ve approached it is to encourage people (especially creatives, which is my remit) to express to me their desired method of working and protect that. I have a team that likes to work until 2am offsite, get drunk and come up with excellent, crazy ideas. But I let them come in at 10/11 when they’re doing that, if I need the mine early I step off the gas the day before. I also have creatives that do 9/5 and get it done brilliantly. I acknowledge and reward that too. I never have to ask them to work late. I simply set the standards and the creative bar I want to achieve, show them trust and they deliver. if they want to do that in a canoe, let them. If they only work one hour a day and spend the rest playing table tennis, let them. The work speaks for itself and there are no slackers in the department.

Working long hours is stupid. Doing good work is smart. If you can apply this to your organisation it will feel less like a sausage factory and more like a creative firehouse. And I know you won at Cannes… Trust me, you haven’t won anywhere near enough to call yourself ‘creative’ yet, and your post shows why.

A lot of people stepping out to defend Baxter as the nice guy here. Does it matter?

He made a provocative statement on an angry topic. A CEO defending burnout culture in an exploitative industry? Little wonder it got heated. His comments came from an ivory tower. The hypocrisy of position is what stinks. Not the personality. We don’t give a shit that you worked with him in 1999. Button it brown nose

To the furious youth, he’s not wrong. Clients flex purse strings for better service. The long hours are a price we pay to retain accounts as unfortunately very few clients have been taught to value talent and pay premium. So whilst queues of willing recruits line the pavement for your chair, wages will sit at the floor rate. That’s supply and demand folks.

For Matt Baxter however, there is a lesson: As CEO you are responsible for your people. Now whether you do or don’t give a shit, you must be seen to care. Sound bytes carry. Perceptions last. No-one should know this better than an AdMan. This is the business.

So whilst you are brave to court the controversy, you are also foolish to stir the pot. Move on quietly before your hard working kids revolt. Chalk up the lesson to naiveté. And next time you do a Jerry Maguire, please improve your copywriting.

I agree with people saying that basically if you expect a lot you should offer the right remuneration. The whole “ambitious people are willing to do what it takes and go the extra mile” is true, but that behaviour should be recognised as a merit in individuals, not enforced on the whole company culture.

I also think it’s extremely backward-thinking to regard working long hours as the only sign of working hard. I think that your worth and commitment to the company should be based on output and results, not simply hours in the office.

I wonder if Matt thought his comments would generate so much banter. Maybe instead of feeding Mumbrella with commentary during conventional working hours those individuals might be able to go home at 5 tonight!!!!

Couldn’t agree more.

When was the last time you heard an agency say to a client ‘this is the way we work, and the way we work ensures you get the best results. Which means briefs / debriefs / rebriefs after 12pm aren’t answered until the next business day. No ifs, buts, whys or wtfs.’ ?

In my memory, it was just before the GFC mothership smashed the industry into little pieces. Funny thing is, agencies are more liquid now than they were then.

All you suckers working in agency land for a pittance. Get into sales 6 figure salaries, come and go as you please.

Lunches, dinners, parties, tickets to the football / rugby / races / concerts / movies, massages, Easter eggs, pamper packages….just a few of benefits that entry level staff in media receive on a regular basis. I doubt very much our counterparts in other industries have their lifestyles subsidised as much.

Yeah great, a whole bunch of subsidies that you can’t enjoy because a) you’re constantly working overtime or b) you have no one to enjoy them with because you lack a social life, because you’re constantly working overtime. I would prefer decent working hours and salary over “benefits” any day. I can buy those things for myself if I’m making decent money thank you. Which is why I got out of the industry. Work/ life balance, being able to afford holidays and have healthy relationships far out way your “benefits”.

Actual copy from ad industry recruiter’s ad….encouraging agency people to move away. Says it all really!

“I am on the lookout for an ambitious AM/ SAM with a strong POS/ FMCG/ Retail experience. It’s an agency role with a difference, working with your only client on-site at one of the big international FMCG companies based in North West of the City. Circa $70k Package. Advantages when compared to a traditional agency role in the city is that there is set out career progression, better life/ work balance, time to really develop a single account, strong HR and potentially it’s a shorter commute if you are in the area. PM me if you are ready to escape relentless grips of agency land.”

100!

I know this is an extreme but is still symptomatic of an attitude where long hours are expected http://www.campaignbrief.com/2.....a-dir.html

I would love to hear Mat Baxter’s opinion on Mita Diran, a Gen Y copywriter who literally worked herself to death:

http://www.venusbuzz.com/archi.....verworked/

I hope it’s still not along the lines of, “There’s no shame in putting in those hours and doing that effort and I kind of feel that the industry is being apologetic for long hours — like, get over it.”

100, I feel you are trivializing this important issue

@Mark
22 Nov 13
11:01 am
Hi Mark,

I read your post with interest but was concerned with your last paragraph. If you think working ‘harder than ever’ to provide for your family will be better for them you have fallen into the trap that’ll become the biggest regret of your life (and many more before you) – not being there for your family.

I don’t know how old your kids are, but as long as you’re above a basic living standard, they’ll appreciate you being there and present with them far more than having any fancy house, car, holiday or toy. That goes whether they’re 3 or 16. As I said, it’s the mistake that nearly all career people make, and they only realise it when it’s too late.

Remember, advertising’s just a job. Nothing more or less. No one’s going to care about you or what you did in the long run, we’re just cogs in a machine. It’s people – and especially your family that count.

Even though Advertising is now hipster and has a degree, it still operates in the same mind-numbing ‘Deadline-driven’ format! Mat’s right. You just have to do some time attack. Do it without losing your chakras and you might get to eat a prawn sandwich beautifully served in a place where hair extensions flow. And, as Mat says “…other industries [who] work a fuck-load harder than we work.”
But to work on a treadmill of blood, sweat and unfair downtime or cash in the name of Advertising, has no justification. It merely shows you are in an agency pretending to offer a serious life challenge and is imploding.
If you’re ‘sacrificing’ your life for Advertising – you’re burning hours at the wrong altar.

@101, sorry you missed out on the century.

Working as an agency contractor in Sydney for the big agencies I used to get calls at 9 and even 10pm on weeknights from junior staff still slogging it out, with no real understanding of how they were being exploited for peanuts, so the telephone number salaries of their swanning superiors could still be paid despite clients screwing down on budgets. I think they have breakdowns at 35 and become aromatherapists. It’s really disgraceful. But ad spokespeople keep spinning the ad agency dream of professional glamour which died long ago. These days agencies are just no-life assembly line workhouses shoveling shit out as fast as they can process it.

Although Mat Baxter is not directly neglecting the true realities of agency land (overhours for (unpaid) pitches), his viewpoint sounds biased and dated (bubble alarm!), actually forgetting any notion about the common issues of lowballing and under scoping project work aside from wrongly managing client expectations (schedule!!!) – as general sympthoms of the industry. YES, the industry should keep apologising, and additionally, for the sake of their own integrity the industry should take real action to their words. An apology without change is worthless. Well, what do we expect of WPP and alike. They really drive a shareholder program!

Mat expresses how young cannon fodder should get over it, implying that advertising/media will always be hard work ..with an abundance of unpaid overhours. Sounds like the messenger of a decaying industry trying way too hard to stay competitive in a growingly low-margin business.

Hypothetically imagining that for one time most agencies would hire sufficient staff (and allocating suitable resources), facilitating a balanced work-life culture amongst their employees, their profit margins would shrink considerably. Clients don’t want to pay more than they did years ago. They expect to pay less, while most shareholders, owners or investors expect to get more from their agency property. Who’s inbetween? Gen-Y!

Mat mentioned “Gen Y are loyal and retainable when treated with the right management style”. Just between the lines this notion implies manipulative people management tactics to make the “sheep” work harder. You can already foresee the first HR/C-Suite blogs shouting out their most recent achievements in posts such as “How to make Gen-Y work harder without spending a dime”.

Gen-Y. Don’t lie to yourself, the glamour and lifestyle of advertising industries’ golden age is longtime over. Some prophets still mantra-like celebrate the past and hold their banners high in rememberance of the great days. In fact, You won’t be famous, you won’t be remembered for any award, you won’t face sudden applause while going through your neighbourhood, your kids won’t adore you because you created campaign x.

Nowadays, fulfilling work originates from other industries. And by the way, it’s less about the work that you do, its about the people you work with, the challenges you master, the money you carry home, the experiences you build and share with your partner/friends and the champions you raise in your family. As always, advertising takes itself way too important. Listening to someone like Mat Baxter is the best reason to laugh about this self-indulgent club.