Clients start to sign up for guaranteed PR model

TT producers must be pretty desperate to touch any clients of a PR guy who was named and shamed for his stunt in hiring actors to promote a former client on ACA. You’d think that any TV segment product would steer w wide mile around Hughes, if not blackball him, for such unethical behavior!

has anyone heard of these clients…not many blue chip clients here. A PR release about nothing

Interesting to read the comments preceding…They said the same thing about cost-per-lead TV once, but now it’s a legitimate advertising medium that most agencies have in their client schedules.

As a client I think this is excellent, and it wont be long before blue-chips ARE in there. Who can refuse a pay for performance model, especially when I actually only pay for work when it works? why is this an issue exactly?

Great to see someone shaking up the formulaic PR world and it’s good to throw a bit of competition in there.

As a public relations consultant, here’s what I would tell any client, anywhere, any time: don’t ever, ever deal with ACA or TT. Not quite sure why this is being put up as a win.

@darren, do you refuse to pay your media agency and your ad agency if you don’t see an immediate sales lift after a TVC has been on air? Do you refuse to pay your doctor if you are sick, they make a recommendation and you don’t get better? Do you refuse to pay a lawyer if you run a case and lose? Do you refuse to pay your financial advisor’s fees if the stock market crashes?

If that’s the way you want to use a PR agency, that’s your prerogative. But public relations is like anything else. You get what you pay for. Cheap does not equal value.

Just for the record, happy to bet plenty that it will be a very, very long time before the “blue chips” are anywhere near it. Mainly because most of them realised that PR does not mean publicity many years ago.

Actually….I am not sure why I am writing this. The advertising industry will continue to look down on us in this little box, while we sit in the other room with their clients cutting their lunch…which is fine with me.

So….disregard my post, ad industry. Ooooh look over there! It’s a Gold Lion someone won for an ad which made everyone laugh and moved um….some product….I think…..maybe….well it was really funny anyway and we shot it in Prague which was awesome and the client loved the creativity.

BTW I am pretty sure Jothy’s made up some of his “clients”. Proto Partners- a service design consultancy? Freestyla – a DIY home hair kit? Has anyone Googled them? Do they exist?

I really don’t care how this guy decides to charge. It’s his business and if there is a client base for it, then good luck to them both.

However, the “I met him on Monday and by Tuesday I was on TT” worries the shit out of me. Entrusting your reputation – no doubt one that you’ve worked extremely hard to build – to someone who knows next to nothing about your business, can only be characterised as risky, at best.

Also three of the seven ‘new wins’ above were listed as existing clients in the service launch release issued last week (http://www.prlog.org/10807405-.....ralia.html). This may be pendantic but I wouldn’t classify them as ‘new’ wins.

I didn’t mean to dismiss clients who are perceived ‘blue chip’ vs non blue chip but I always want to know why specifically within the PR side of business it’s always about a group of clients that no-one (me) has heard of.
Let’s talk about celebrating great wins PR wise, not just mentions on Today Tonight as a mention. For example the following are more newsworthy:
a) Bumpology.com working with Practical parenting magazine and working with ante-natal classes etc
b) Apre Velo supporting Whitehouse school of fashion

Cheers
Paul

wow – a self-fulfilling prophecy. this guy really knows his stuff

@RexD – you’re a pretty strange kind of public relations consultant then if you don’t recognise the benefits of being on TT or ACA. What logic do you offer up for not counting these significant placements as a pr win?

And regarding your comment to Darren – the only reason we don’t refuse to pay an ad agency if there is no immediate sales lift, or refuse to pay a doctor if there is no cure – is because there is no option to. Jothy has recognised a concern relating to the pr industry (that massive retainers are paid regardless of performance, which HAS to result in inefficiencies and wastage, albiet inefficiencies and wastage in favour of the pr industry) and has developed a product to address it, cleverly in my opinion.

If he has the pr savvy and contacts to get the kind of results described, then good on him and I would retain him for my business.

At the end of the day the only people who are concerned with this are the lazy, ineffective PR people who are obviously threatened and to be frank, you sound like one of them.

Pay for performance in the pr world will weed out the huge number of media and pr consultants who actually don’t have a clue about engaging the media strategically to meet their client’s goals. You just have to read the majority of media releases coming to producers and newsrooms to know that this is the case.

@darren, do you refuse to pay your media agency and your ad agency if you don’t see an immediate sales lift after a TVC has been on air? Do you refuse to pay your doctor if you are sick, they make a recommendation and you don’t get better? Do you refuse to pay a lawyer if you run a case and lose? Do you refuse to pay your financial advisor’s fees if the stock market crashes?

If that’s the way you want to use a PR agency, that’s your prerogative. But public relations is like anything else. You get what you pay for. Cheap does not equal value.

@Darren – the issue with a payment for results model is that – unlike an advertising model – PR people cannot guarantee coverage as they cannot force a journalist to run/air a story. Nor would any PR practitioner with any credibility do that to a journalist.

“I signed with him on Monday and by Tuesday night he had me on Today Tonight.”
I am immediately reminded of the same sort of tacky endorsement i might see about diet pills / life insurance / wonder bras / skincare while watching Today Tonight ironically.

Good to know that his self marketing is true to his style of publicity, although i’m not sure how to reflect on clients who would go with this style of “PR”. I may have to throw out all my Apres Velo gear if i start seeing it on ACA.

@scott – Good Lord if any journo worth their salt heard you say “engage with the media strategically” they’d vomit.

jothy used to work for us at IFG and to be honest “stunt publicity” is his forte…. I really dont think any credible brand would be excited about the kind of publicity TT or ACA promote, kind of hilarious that all the publicity gained was actually on TT, can he pull any other leads i wonder?

In a way Jothy is creating business for the rest of the industry, here are eight brands which will shortly require crisis and issues management support … and keeping clients OUT of the news is hardly going to pay the bills for him is it?

Also Mumbrella how can this be a “PR” model, and Jothy be a “PR” man, when he is only offering publicist services? Public Relations infers channels other than media will be employed, and services far broader reaching than simply publicity – which is but singular element of the discipline.

Hi All,

Of course my clients are real. Please feel free to Google them.

People make mistakes in life and it’s how you learn from these mistakes which makes you a better person and better at your job. And I have learnt.

David Falk, Michael Jordan’s manager said in an interview in March that he improved at his job, all the time, by making mistakes and learning from them.

Thank you for the all kind words and I look forward to proving other people wrong.

i love how publicists are complaining about thius – as a media OWNER i am sick to death of PR companies ripping out the value of advertising and pulling all the funds for themselves from clients.

wake up PR land – your only making a buck off of someone else (media) taking a loss.

99% of content these days that worth its salt in eyeballs is NOT handled by most pr firms. your all just our for free stuff yourselves.

I can’t see the problem with being featured on TT or ACA.

My business has been on TT four times in the past year and a half. The last time (May 31) generated more than 13,000 new members.

Different media for different products, I know, but I wouldn’t be too quick to judge the effect on this type of media.

Its remarkable how so many people willing to comment on this topic have almost no knowledge or understanding of what public relations is. Here’s a hint it ISNT PUBLICITY.

Craig, I think pure snobbery is the reason so many people are being judgemental about TT! It works well for some brands and products and snobbery towards specific media outlets, programs etc.. isn’t a good trait to have when you work in PR.

As for the litany of negative comments. This guy is not trying to change the way PR agencies work or damage the industry. He’s giving certain clients the type of publicity they want and getting paid for it. Give him a break people. Different companies have different needs – he’s just catering to some of these needs – stop taking it so personally!

This is a fairly narrow view of PR in that it assumes that placement = success. It is fairly typical for PR agencies, at the initiation stage, to agree to specific KPIs which must be achieved and which cover a broader dynamic than just placements (e.g. sentiment, measurements of direct impact on the business results like traffic through the door, to a site, conversion rates of traffic, etc.), in order for them to be considered to be meeting the brief – rather than being a situation where the client only pays on success, the more typical model is that the agency will put more resource and energy at the task (over-invest in your business) in order to ensure the KPIs are met…otherwise they lose the business. The only time I would accept the pay for placement model is if that was the only dimension that mattered — as that will never be the case, I don’t think I’ll be going down this road…

@Craig – i think four times in the past 1.5 years on TT is hogging it a bit!

Say what you want about TT and ACA and brands, businesses engage with marketing / comms industry for basically one thing – to increase sales. Even brand work is done with the goal of increasing the value rather than volume of those sales.

So if he was engaged, filiming was done, it was screened and there was an increase in sales, then hasn’t he done his job?

Does this count as media coverage (which can be charged for…)

No, as long as you keep posting pics of him, WE have the last laugh – have you seen his hair??!

I worked in London for 18 months on some major (Europe-wide) brands and promising coverage for clients is the norm. My manager promised coverage and specified the media, the size of the story and when it would run. By knowing right from the beginning what we had to achieve, we were totally focused on those goals and when they were achieved (which they were, every time) they were stoked. It wasn’t cash-for-coverage but we set a bar and we had to reach it. It’s just how things got done. The client was happy, and we were happy. It meant really developing relationships with the journalists we needed and making sure the story was tailored so we got exactly what we wanted. At the end of the day, that is what good PR is about.

Deal with ACA at your peril. They will happily distort facts, manufacture fear and use creative editing to imply the opposite of what was said. They are so adept at saying one thing to the PRs/interviewees and then change it 180-degrees, it’s very hard to tell. Of course, plenty of the time that are very happy to just do the straight puff piece, which makes it even trickier. Big audience of gullible consumers, so it might be worth the risk. Did someone say dealing with the devil?

@Differentiator yes, I am a hog 🙂

@Trish totally agree with you. My PR efforts have been about site members and book sales, and if that’s called publicity and not PR I’ll live with it.

The world has moved on from a definition-based existence in this industry(“PR”, “coverage”, “marketing”, “advertising”, “geurrilla stunts”). Who cares how they are defined.

We operate within the REAL world now, where sales figures are the definition….well done Jothy for effecting movements in your clients’ sales data effectively – bring it on!

Is this that same ‘publicist’ who set up that ‘fake’ story on a current affair about Gold Parties – ex wives club that sells off old lovers gifts?

If that client list is the last laugh, i’ve happily missed the joke

I’m glad it’s the general consensus that, while obviously this guy’s clients think that any publicity is good publicity. common sense prevails with the rest of us.

While it’s all well and good having a meeting one day and the following being on tv, it’s hardly a strategic, sustainable approach to media relations. Sometimes even when you are looking for general publicity, there has to be some planned logic, the scattergun approach won’t benefit business in the long run.

It is his own business model and he has the right to run it how he wants, but the clients he’s going to attract are ones none of the rest of us realistically want to touch, since all the additional work we put into account management would obviously be wasted on them.

Grave pity, dangerous path to take but we should be thankful to him if any of us have competitor brands because, while he might win the battle (TT/ ACA anyone?!), we’ll always win the war.

I’m all for this model just as long as the agency and the client share the upsides and the downsides equally. If the agency exceeds targets then they should get more than their quoted fee. Agree?

I think it’s impressive that a service provider puts his money where his mouth is. I occasionally work on % of success for some marketing services if I think it’s worthwhile.

Obviously with any “pay for success” model it’s wise to ensure there’s a business match. But if you’re able to attract clients that are PR worthy, then anyone good at their job should be able to get them some media. The challenge is clients who actually have a good story to tell…

“”
They are:

* Hannah McNicol – a women’s fashion label
* Griffin and Row – skincare
* Australianpoolcompany.com – specialist builder of harbour front and cliff pools
* The Winning Process – a promotional campaign concept
* Apres Velo – a fashion label
* Bumpology.com – women’s maternity range
* Freestyla – a DIY home hair kit
* Proto Partners- a service design consultancy
“””

Who??

Where are my pistols and horse? Pow Pow! Cowboy PR is BACK! NOW!

@ Mary – spot on. Wouldn’t touch ’em with with a barge pole…

*Do you refuse to pay a lawyer if you run a case and lose?*

No-win no-fee lawyers have been around for a long time. They do cater to a specific clientele, admittedly, and usually the lower end of the market, but there’s clearly a market for them. I don’t see why there wouldn’t be a similar market for PR services.

What if the ad industry tried the same thing – no results no fees?

Those of us with an affiliate/CPC model deal with this every day.

Personally, I find getting paid on performance a much more comfortable and profitable scenario than flat rate.

There’s no risk to the client, providing they accept that they can only be included based on their own performance.

Says Zanne re promising clients coverage: “My manager promised coverage and SPECIFIED THE MEDIA, THE SIZE OF THE STORY AND WHEN IT WOULD RUN.”

Really? If true, that is a stunning achievement. BP would pay $5,000 an hour for that type of service. The NSW Government would probably pay more.

Zanne again: “It meant really developing relationships with THE JOURNALISTS WE NEEDED and making sure the story was tailored so WE GOT EXACTLY WHAT WE WANTED.”

What did you do? Kidnap their children? Bribe them with product?

They weren’t journalists. They were hacks.

Easy to criticise – but not that easy to achieve
I bet 9 out of 10 of the critics here are either
a) trolls
or
b) jealous,

Give him a break and let him run his business.

@ Jothy Hughes if I could find your number on your website I’d call you.

Massive typo on the NOW! website:

“…one of the only ones of it’s kind in Australia”

Every time you abuse an apostrophe, your penis shrinks a little. Not a good look for your business mate.

WOW- these comments are the best new business generator ever. Thank you.

I’ve secured another 2 new business wins today.

@ Lucio Ribeiro, sorry you couldn’t find my number. Please feel free to call me anytime on 0423 491 808

@ Jothy I guess that’s not such thing as bad publicity….

@Darren Horrigan I’ve worked in publicity in UK and Australia, and isn’t that broadly what you do? You talk a client through which journos you will target, and which publications are likeliest to run a story, and then you go and pitch it and see what comes back?
If you’ve chosen to work with a good client and you know what you’re doing, then often you DO get the coverage you say you’re going to – otherwise you wouldn’t be much cop as a publicist.

That spelling mistake was my fault. Whoops!

Wow. The very thought of it. Performance based payment models. Who could have imagined the furore that would create. There must be a lot of PRs out there feeling threatened. Go Jothy.

A client…is not someone who has signed up at no cost but someone who pays you.

I have worked for agencies that ‘gaurantee’ a certain number of results and it is not the way to do publicity. As it becomes about quantity NOT quality. So yeah these ‘client’s will get results but will they be any good? Will they be quality? Or will they be whatever they can get in not neccessarily the best media title/show etc – scrap so to speak. I know if I was paying someone to do a job (whatever it may be) I would expect quality results. The old saying is very true – you get what you pay for!

But I understand why he has had to do this…he didn’t have any other options if he wanted to stay in the business.

(Moderated by Mumbrella – impersonation of somebody else)

Also there is no mention of what a defined result is. Does the client have any control over what is perceived as a mention that is of benefit to their company or is it just mentions within the media?

RexD Proto Partners (try googling Proto Partners) exist and we are real and if you go to our website you will see we have real blue chip clients. I am not sure why there is so much consternation about pay for performance, we put up to 50% of our fees at risk because we believe in what we do…and so do our clients!

Quite frankly, I think it is brilliant that someone is prepared to work on a payment for results basis in PR. Their risk, no one else’s. Perhaps the fear of some commentators is that it will actually mean they have to deliver results for once if they work in PR. In a country that has such monopolised media, I know many companies that do not even bother with PR because there are but a few newspapers that they would have a chance of being read in let alone appear on TV or radio. Fair go! Go for it Jothy and may you win those blue chip clients because I know they would welcome the way you work. For those saying advertising does not work on this basis, have a look at Ikon Communications, one of the biggest ad agencies in Australia – they work on the same basis as Jothy and have won over $140 million of new accounts in the last year due to the way they work.

Jothy deserves congratulations for deciding on a performance-based approach to doing business, but in the interests of fairness, he should also be judged on his initial claim via media release that his new venture was “the first of its kind in Australia”, which this site used as the basis for its initial story last week.

Jothy was advised immediately that his claims were misleading and deceptive – see: http://powerpr.com.au/?p=325 – and agreed to demands that he amend his website copy and issue an amended media release to address these claims.

Power PR – powerpr.com.au – is a performance-based PR agency, specialising in publicity and will next month celebrate its first anniversary. The agency was founded by Nicholas Karandonis, who was the first person in Australia to introduce a performance-based, success fee, publicity model through another company I incorporated in 1997 called ‘Media Conduits Pty Limited’.

In its first year, Power PR has managed to grow its client base from zero to nearly 20 – and that’s in the absence of an aggressive marketing startegy which is scheduled for Y2!

For those agencies and its representatives that have persisted with sipping champagne and engaging in air-kissing while skimping out on delivering results for your clients, we’ll be too happy to take them off your hands!! (preferably without your approval)

@Max Markson – (moderated by Mumbrella)

I left an important bit out of my last paragraph in my previous comment. It should have read: “For those agencies and its representatives that have persisted with sipping champagne and engaging in air-kissing DURING LONG LUNCHES, while skimping out on delivering results for your clients, we’ll be too happy to take them off your hands!! (preferably without your approval).”

Skimming at this stage, that’s all.

Let’s wait and see what quality can be gained, because quantity is no longer the main game.

What a lively and enjoyable set of comments. And to top it all off, (moderated by Mumbrella).

BORING!

@Lauren…”You talk a client through which journos you will target, and which publications are likeliest to run a story, and then you go and pitch it and see what comes back?”

Well, we all know that’s how it works. I’ve lived both sides of the media divide and worked for an against the best hidden persuaders in the business.

But do you PROMISE coverage? Do you SPECIFY THE SIZE OF THE STORY and WHEN IT WILL RUN? Are you abe to tailor a story to get EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANT?

C’mon – not even Tony Soprano can do this.

BTW, I’ve never met Jothy Hughes, but I love what he’s up to. Strength to his arm and I hope he makes millions.

@scott – your post demonstrates you think that stunt-driven publicity represents what the rest of us do.

This demonstrates the limits of your knowledge. Jothy’s business is a tactic that you might deploy in a limited range of situations. I can’t actually think of one right now, though.

Threatened by Jothy? Not really. If he can make a go of it, fine. If you would hire him, you would never hire me, and I probably wouldn’t be able to have a meaningful conversation with you about your business.

But yes I am threatened by him if you refer to the indirect damage that businesses like his do to our industry by perpetuating myths and misunderstanding.

To everyone else, we already have a performance-based system. If our clients see value, they keep paying us. If they don’t, they don’t – and very quickly. Fortunately our client base and revenues are growing….so I am not too threatened. Most of our clients are real business people who understand that publicity has its place, but it is usually a hammer looking for a nail.

Finally, yes, we avoid ACA/TT. Not because they are down-market [which they are – but they may suit some clients’ business objectives] but because they can’t be trusted. The potential/dubious reward does not justify the risk. We and our clients have been burned too many times.

As I said above… Look over there at the shiny new TVCs, marketing people, while we slip past you into the boardroom in increasing numbers.

Does anybody know how he gets his tie-knot to be the ENORMOUS.

I want to also have an intimidatingly oversized tie-knot.

* “that” enormous, not “the enormous”… obviously

What he is doing is legal. Its ethical – especially for his clients. Its proactive. It is entrepreneurial and most importantly, which too many of you are too arrogant to understand – it’s HIS FREAKING BUSINESS . Starting a business is not easy. Coming up with a concept to make it work is allowed and should be encouraged.
What other PR agencies think is really irrelevant. If you think you have a better way of doing business then go and do it……..there is nothing stopping you like their is nothing stopping Jothy.

@ Steve – right on!

I used to work at one of the three large marketing services groups and as part of my role I sat on the Board of Directors of one of the leading PR firms in this country. Every month from the safety of my large salary and corporate experience, I offered the CEO , who had 30 years PR experience, advice on how to grow his revenue line. I then chose to leave and set up my own firm, unrelated to PR.

It was only then, that I realised that for two years, the advice I gave was almost meaningless as I had never had to grow a business from scratch and in reality, had very little knowledge of operating a successful small business.

So it is with interest, that I read all these negative comments from people who I assume make their comments from the safety of their pay packet arriving every month, no questions asked.

Some advice. If you would like to take a pot shot at this guy. Resign your job, start a business from nothing and try and grow it and get back to your same salary using your PAYE point of view and then come back onto the forum and see if you make the same vacuous comments.

Its tough and you need to try different approaches when you are starting with nothing but an idea, passion and real belief in yourself. I hand it to the guy, big knot in his tie or not, he is backing himself and if he fails, well that’s up to him.

Dear Jothy Hughes

I love you.

You should ignore these comments.

A lot of these people are strange and weird and a few have ‘mother’ issues. If you know what I mean.

You can tell.

You can also tell that three are in therapy. Two are recovering alcoholics. One was clearly drunk at the time of writing. And one clearly wants to be punished for being ‘bad’ and his comment is a cry for help.

“Help me” he’s saying. And I can help. I’m that kind of girl. But I do charge. And I promise it will hurt.

Actually, I have another idea. If I don’t hurt you won’t have to pay – are you paying attention ‘RexD’, I could be what you are looking for. Email me darling and we can work through this together.

Jothy, these people are cruel. Some are idiots. Some are cruel idiots.

And you don’t have to apologise. Not to these people. Never apologise to an idiot. It’s good advice. It’s free advice. If my advice delivers a result you own me $75. But I’ll settle for drink. E-mail me. We can settle up at Hugos. I’m free after 10 on Saturday.

Actually, if you help me get a book deal I’ll buy the drinks, read my blog and tell me what you think. I’ll give you 25% of gross. It’s a good deal.

And I like your tie.

Ok, wish you luck.

Hugs

Lavinia.

Ha ha Lavinia strikes again! Each to their own, if clients are happy enough to go with Jothy then good on them, and good on him. Business is business folks, and as a small business owner the promise of “only pay me if you see results” is very, very tempting.

Like I said, I am not threatened by Jothy. I am just annoyed by limited marketing people using Jothy’s story as a jumping-off point to bash their incorrect perception of what public relations agencies do. Jothy himself is largely irrelevant to the rest of us.

@anon – I note that you “read all these negative comments from people who I assume make their comments from the safety of their pay packet arriving every month, no questions asked.”

You assume entirely wrongly, so your argument is ridiculous. How many leaders of small prof services companies do you know who “receive a pay packet every month, no questions asked.” If the clients [revenue] are leaving because the work is not brilliant, the questions get asked very, very quickly.

If you knew anything at all – even the slightest thing about the PR industry – you would know that almost all the PR agencies in this country are small, started by entrepreneurs, so we’re all quite qualified to comment, thanks very much.

Hey TIm

Are you IP checking this thread? I’d love to see how many comments are coming from Jothy himself or his friends……

“Are you IP checking this thread? I’d love to see how many comments are coming from Jothy himself or his friends……”

Yeah Tim. Was that really Max Markson? And why has his comments now been removed?

Yep, we don’t have any issues with Jothy Hughes pricing structure.
http://christophercopywriter.com is happy to offer the same pay on results structure
that Jothy is offering. It offers greater transparency. Get creative we say!
cc.