Is being a mother and a CEO just too hard?
In this guest posting, Lara Thom, who has just launched Conceive Productions, takes inspiration from NineMSN’s outgoing CEO Joe Pollard, who resigned to spend more time with her children.
I am sure that Mumbrella didn’t intend for this to be the biggest message I walked away with after Mumbrella360. But it was. So let me explain. We sat watching Mumbrella Question Time with four of the biggest heavyweights in our industry. Joe Pollard, the CEO of NineMSN was asked a question about work/life balance.
Her answer was straight and to the point. Her mantra was to seriously re-think things if she didn’t want to go to work three days in a row. Her decision to resign from NineMSN was inspired by her two little boys who were her priority.
Cue the violins. No seriously, cue the violins and give this woman a medal. I wanted to get on stage and hug her. Her response was raw and honest. I tweeted my admiration instead.
I don’t know Joe personally. But I do know a lot of people who know her. They admire her, they respect her. She is also known for being a tough lady who is a strong boss, a serious operator and a tough negotiator. I recall the day only recently when it was announced that Joe had resigned, and presuming she must have been offered a huge job elsewhere. Why else would she leave?
I had never thought of her as a mother.
There’s no doubt that Joe is considered one of the top CEO’s and marketers in the country. We can now add to that, a compassionate mother who gets that there’s more to life and puts her kids above all else. Bravo Joe, Bravo.
Why do I care? I speak from experience. As MD of an agency, it was with great trepidation that I emailed the bosses with the news: “I’m pregnant, baby due in June, business won’t be disrupted, it’s my 4th baby so I know what I’m doing. I’m so sorry.”
Neither of them emailed back.
Instead they walked from their offices into my office and gave me a big hug. Neither asked about work. I was shocked. They may have uttered the odd expletive after they hugged me (being 100% honest, I too have been guilty of using the “f” word when a valued staff member has announced a pregnancy).
The guys were 100% supportive and to this day, I’ve had nothing but support from the most senior of male colleagues and bosses. When I recently turned on the tears in front of my boss “I…want…to…spend…more…time…with…my…kids” I too realised, it’s bloody tough trying to mix motherhood and a big career.
As women, it’s hard to escape the tag we get when we have kids. “This is Lara Thom, she has four children”. People are amazed that someone can produce that many children, have a big job and ‘do it all’. The truth is, I can’t. Even with incredible support and help, I can’t buy time. Time is what the kids need most from us.
The question of women in leadership is constantly raised at government level and in corporate boardrooms [in a recent opinion piece, Mango PR’s Simone Drewry discussed the lack of women in senior roles in the communications industry]. It’s time we gave the blokes a break. Yes, there are men who will give a promotion to a man over woman because she may get pregnant. But they are few and far between. With the exception of one idiot years ago, all my male colleagues have always been supportive of the fact that I am a wife, mother and yes, a woman.
We have a female prime minister (okay, no kids which is why she can balance it), our governor general is a woman, Gail Kelly is the CEO of Westpac. Every state in Australia except SA has had a female state premier. Women are getting the chance to step up, many are simply making the choice for the kids to come first.
We should be celebrating our amazing right to choose. We should not be creating issues about females in leadership positions. In my opinion, the ongoing debate of why there aren’t enough females in senior leadership positions in Australia is a bit overdone. When senior and talented women, like Joe Pollard choose to be with their kids, we can’t blame corporate Australia or the government.
We need to applaud Joe, the people who appointed her to that position and applaud her again for putting her kids first – they are, after all, are future leaders.
Lara Thom is CEO of Conceive Productions. She has four children, aged six, five, three and one.
You are so out of touch!
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Why is she out of touch? I feel there are some good points raised.
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I loved this. Honest, raw, if only more people were in touch. As a mother of young children, I know the juggle – and wish it wasn’t this way. Love this piece.
Anonymous – you’re a real ass. Either that or you’re the Tin Man from Wizard of Oz. Trot off and find your heart.
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Well said La….x
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Awesome Lara ! Finally some real, raw honesty around the debate that we really can’t have it all – something always has to give………
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I think it’s wonderful and brave that Jo made the choice and Lara you are amazing to have 4 kids while running a business
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Bravo, Lara. And I agree entirely on your sentiments about Joe – I hope she gets to read your piece.
As a mother of three and an MD myself, I know you can’t have it all and yes, if I could buy more time, I would borrow a fortune from the bank to get it.
But I can’t.
So, as you well know, every day, I make the decisions about where I’m going to shave off some time – somedays you can steal it back from work and some days the kids stay in after school care that little bit longer. And yes, I exist in a constant state of guilt that one end of the equation is missing out.
That’s life and thank goodness most of the people (male and female alike) I work with are entirely supportive – as long as the job gets done, who cares if it’s at your kitchen table after you’ve put the kids to bed?
Anonymous, I think the fact you haven’t put your name to your ignorant comment says it all.
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Bravo Lara!
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As a woman who ain’t likely to have kids I’m a little bit over the whole work/life/kids balance conversation and the generalisations that inevitably arise about being a ‘woman’ in business. If you want kids, then it’s obviously going to mean that personal sacrifices will have to be made. Simple as that.
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It’s above the waist that counts at work.
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It’s above the shoulders that counts at work I mean.
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The premise of this dicsussion is kind of irrelevant. CEO’s and MD’s get paid a lot of money. They can afford extra child care and nannies, they also have PA’s they can delegate menial and mundane personal chores to. But most of all they get the financial rewards that compensate both themselves (BMW/nice clothes etc) and their kids and family (private school/holidays etc). I dont have a lot of sympathy therefore. The discussion should be about middle managers in marketing and media who work long hours without the freedom and flexibility to “do it all” but are somehow expected to keep their end up or bail out. I’ll wager now that Ms Pollar – who I dont know personally – will be back in another high paying gig inside of 18 months.
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All praise the PARENTS out there who work and have children. I think the opening comment about being out of touch is that it is not all about the women here.
Where are the dad’s when all these high-flying C-suite women are driving kids to soccer and then going to board meeting? Just as busy and just as important professionally? Then maybe you as a couple need to re-prioritise and stop making it all about the woman.
On another angle – what about the single parents? A bit more praise needed there methinks!
I grew up with single CEO parent – she managed both a successful career and kept our lives happy, safe and she was always engaged. No she didn’t do tuck shop and would be late picking us up from netball practice, but amazingly that does not maketh the woman, nor the mother.
Now, as a professional myself, I appreciate that I can talk to her about work – and her understanding of my world isnt all about family and home.
It wouldnt matter if it was father or mother, issue is the same, it is work life balance and making your own priorities, not pandering to those of a workplace. There are other jobs, and other opportunities.
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While it’s obvious that choosing the path of parenthood will require personal concessions, the fact remains that if we are to have a next generation, it is women who must bear them and parents of one sex or another that will have to provide the care, love, attention and nuturing that they require to take over when their time comes. Whatever choice you make, and whether you are a man or a woman, it’s great there are people who are trying to find a way of doing both their important job, and the very important job of raising those children. Congratulations to Joe, Lara and everyone who is trying to do so.
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Anonymous at the top of the list … I think you are having a touch … now get your hand OFF it!
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I thought I would put this question out there…
Does a corporate title pigeonhole us?
As a general thought, I believe woman who are good thinkers earn respect and thus we will always play an important role in our communities.
I’ll use a clichéd business analogy. All good leaders know the importance of team roles. Great leaders know when to pass the baton. “..Her mantra was to seriously re-think things if she didn’t want to go to work three days in a row.” This quote illuminates your point Lara below.
The individual earns “Respect”, which is not the same as “Recognition” which is often thrust upon a minority group. As you’ve stated below.
“The question of women in leadership is constantly raised at government level and in corporate boardrooms … It’s time we gave the blokes a break…”
I personally place myself as an individual first. I aim to set my agenda, not my gender. I want to earn respect through my actions.
Going back to my early question.
I think “Corporate Titles” are how communities perceive people. “Titles” attract recognition and the focus is on the person, not on the thought behind it. I have just picked out a news report on a recent job promotion e.g. http://tiny.cc/va9p9
Do journalists and public relations experts see this as a quick win in the mining for content? Are we providing these style stories to media? Are we creating a rung in the ladder for all to climb?
I’d ask for reports on company stories that herald brand actions, typify recognition for good thinking and not a revised ‘corporate title’. Stories where gender or title are not the only two points to takeaway from the message.
I am starting to sound like a Pollyanna. Welcome your thoughts?
Tiffany
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All very valid and relevant comments. Thank you. I agree with all of you. Everyone makes a good point. My kids tell me I’m out of touch all the time so even Mr/Ms Anonymous may have a point?
@alisonF – I agree. I feel for the professionals who choose not to have children, the argument does get a tad tiring as it’s raised over and over (and kind of goes no where?). I recall a time when I didn’t have kids and getting cranky with the annual fed govt budget each year that dished out cash to old people and families but not to DINKS who paid their taxes, tolls, private health etc. You make a good point and I hear you loud and clear.
@Fiona -Great point on the single parent front, one of my business partners is a single parent and I honestly have no idea how she does it. If you’re running out the door to pick up a kid you feel guilty and if you’re in the office late you feel guilty. There’s no answer but I think it’s always good to acknowledge they have it a lot tougher than most as there is no choice, they have to bring money in the door.
@Gezza – Very true, the CEO’s and MD’s of the world do get paid a lot more money and therefore it is easier in many respects. I don’t think a CEO with kids and two working parents could do their gig without help with childcare or a nanny. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a part time CEO, they get paid the big bucks because it’s a big job with enormous responsibility. All the money in the world however can’t buy you time. It doesn’t matter what you earn, no parent, no matter how much moula they have, can buy more time after a 40-80hour work week.
@Robyn – you are 100% correct, our make up is one where the gals get pregnant (or adopt) and have the babies. It’s unlikely to change and that’s cool too. THere’s something in our make up that gives us an undeniable maternal instinct, we want to hang with our kids and do it all (we may just not be able to do it all well at the same time!).
Anyway, it’s not a whinge, far from it, more the point that it’s ok to be a Mum, to be a working Mum or to be an at home Dad. It’s ok to try to do it all. It’s also ok not to try to pretend that we’re invincible. I stuff it up often, usually with the kids but because I love them, I am sure they’ll forgive me. One day.
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Great article and agree women should be congrtaulated for the balance of being a Mum and holding a high-profile role, for those with no sympathy or the vie of they get paid large salaries etc etc, well they derseve it, they’ve clearly earnt it! Anom at the top – mate get a life seriously……
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Lara – why did you finish your email to your bosses with ‘I’m so sorry’? Just interested in your thoughts on this when I agree with so much of everything else you’ve written. When I told my bosses about each of my pregnancies I never felt the need to apologise. I also didn’t promise to be back at my desk until all my maternity leave was finished (admittedly as a public sector employee I am very fortunate on this front). I’ve worked part-time for 10 years now, with my hours increasing yearly to match the changing needs of my family. I’ll be ready to work full-time soon, knowing that I have 25+ years in which to further build my career.
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Hi Bron,
The business was at a critical point in its development and I had committed to getting it to a certain point in a certain time. I knew me leaving the business would break that commitment and possibly throw a spanner in the works. I wasn’t sorry about the baby (he’s delicious!) but more sorry for myself (I loved my job). I was sorry my ability to continue working as hard wouldn’t be possible for a while (even travel was impossible post 7 months pregnant and I needed to be o/s a bit at that time). As it turned out, baby was 4 days old when I returned to work, he came with me for 4 months. I wasn’t trying to be a hero, it just worked for me and 4th babies are easy. I wouldn’t have done that with no 1 but no 4 @ work was easier than balancing work from home +3 other kids. The wonderful thing for me was my staff, colleagues and bosses were flexible and understanding and only once did someone say “why’s that baby here?” (a fellow mother!) . I’m very fortunate with my experiences and I know that not everyone is that lucky. I’ve never been sorry about a pregnancy and like you I took time off (3 years) with the first three to be a FT Mum and then came back to career after no 3. It was a special time with my little gang. Congrats on working part time and working to family needs though, admirable.
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Lara’s article & Jo’s decision highlights an interesting point about “success”, balance and “having it all” in parenthood, and how narrow the definition still is.
As mothers (and fathers) I don’t think the point of successful balance is about how you divide your time between the corporate office and home – in that paradigm, “balance” is tough to achieve, the battle becomes about how hard you keep slogging to the top, thinking more money is what your family needs – it’s a never ending rabbit hole. There is a definite point of diminishing return – and maybe Jo (like many others) got to that point?
If we define “having it all” as a bigger title, more money, bigger house, nicer car, more elaborate overseas holidays, more Chanel in the cupboard, more exclusive network, then again, there’s a diminishing point of return – and The Happiness Institute puts it at about $125K. Beyond that, they reckon earning more money doesn’t bring you any more happiness
Let’s be radical for a minute and define ‘having it all’ as being materially comfortable but also doing meaningful work you love, having your family thriving, having time for yourself to do things that energise you, growing as a human being rather than just a corporate machine? If this is the definition of “having it all” (and I don’t think it’s just mothers who define it as this), then yes it is very possible. And funnily enough, if you have all that then your performance & output at work is far better. I reckon we just need to change the paradigm of “it all”. Perhaps that’s what Jo and Lara and lots of other mothers (& fathers) I know are doing.
Good on her for being a role model for something else & highlighting that big business still hasn’t found a way to integrate talents of senior women who are mothers with the business plan. The unspoken feeling in some people’s commentary is that Jo’s ‘opted out to just be a mum’, that being a mother means “making concessions” to the rest of your life. Crap! Parenthood is not a concession to the rest of your life, it empowers & enriches the rest of your life. Jo’s continuing to use all her amazing talents & energies in her other leadership position – that as a mother. Motherhood, leadership and business are not 3 separate, unrelated galaxies – infact, when the culture supports them, they build on each other. I hope she’ll continue to be a role model for a better kind of “having it all”
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A point of view on why motherhood makes you a better business leader..
http://mumpreneurstories.wordp.....repreneurs
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Well said.
I especially liked this comment about time and having ‘it all’ , “People are amazed that someone can produce that many children, have a big job and ‘do it all’. The truth is, I can’t. Even with incredible support and help, I can’t buy time. Time is what the kids need most from us.”
Maybe if we all live 100 lifetimes we can have the time to have it all but we can’t. It;s nice to hear someone admit that honestly. It takes the pressure off.
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Great post and great comments. I am approaching this stage of life as a CEO, wife and hopefully a mother and as the business owner, Junior will be spending the formative months by my desk some days no doubt. Appreicate you sharing your experiences.
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There is not such thing as having it all – it’s a myth. We can’t have it all. You have four kids, you know the cookie will crumble. No-one told her to have four children, you know you will make sacrifices even having one child. We all try to do our best juggling work and family, even without kids, having a work/life balance. Someone said earlier in the comments that CEO’s can afford help, and I get it, but her two boys wanted her to spend more time with them, not a nanny etc (if that was the case). Its hard – life is hard sometimes. She’ll be back when they are older.
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Is being a FATHER and a CEO just too hard?
Parenting should be equal – fathers have just as much responsibility and capability
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RB – It’s a valid question. In my opinion being a father and CEO certainly a big balance too (any job with kids is tough no matter what gender you are!) but it’s not quite the same. Males don’t take time out of their careers to be pregnant, give birth, recover, breastfeed etc. This doesn’t mean that women are more special or harder workers or downtrodden but it’s a fact. Females deliver the babies and it’s the biggest thing they will ever put their body through. Whilst I am generalising here, most male CEO’s that I know have a partner at home who is the primary carer for the kids. Most female CEO’s I know have a full time working partner, there’s a lot more on both parents, in those instances, both parents do a lot more juggling. No one is in the right or wrong here, moreso that Joe and others (including any father who is a CEO or otherwise who take time out) are to be commended on putting their kids first. Parents are equal in more ways than one these days and fathers are carrying more of the load, this piece however was not about ‘girl power’ or forgetting the guys contribution, more in favour that I think equality has come a long way.
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Why is this article about CEO’s and senior management? I know a lot of mothers and fathers who work just as hard, more often than not holding down more than one job each to make ends meet. AND they don’t have the luxury of a big fat pay cheque to offset the guilt of leaving the kids in after-school care 5 days a week by shouting an overseas trip or the latest ipad-pod-whatever. Yet they do have as much stress – probably more – by having to balance more than one job each, daytime and night time shifts, and weekend work (NOT with the choice of doing it on the kitchen table when the kids have gone to bed). Get out of your ivory tower and think about the everyday Aussie battlers. We might not have the smarts to run a company, but we work just as hard, for less. There is NO choice when it comes to deciding where to spend their time – they HAVE to work. I tend to agree with the first comment, you’re way out of touch. Here’s a tip – despite being such a superstar, don’t go into Politics, most Aussies wouldn’t have a bar of you.
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Okay anon – I promise, no politics. Shall stay in my ivory tower. This was only about CEO’s and senior managers because that’s what I do and that’s what Joe does. I can’t change our job titles. That said, happy to write another piece about everyday Aussie battlers, I was there once, I can recall having to borrow nappies from a friend because the bank balance was too low for the next few days. Be careful not to judge, you can never be too sure where people have come from to get to where they are now.
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Ive never seen an article questioning male CEOs with children if they have the balance “right” or if they would leave work to “put their children first”.
If men took more of the burden – it might be easier for all genders to achieve a real work/life “balance”.
Many of the statements cited throughout your piece and comment responses are NOT based on real statistics or science, more assumed old fashioned, societal norms. I believe they ARE problematic and not based in fact.
There are many reasons why a person chooses to work. Many have no option.
A parent may in fact be putting their child first by continuing to work and not presenting an image that an “ideal” mother remains in the home with a working man supporting the family.
For example, evidence suggests negative impact of gender stereotyping on girls is larger than negative impact of sexualisation.
There is a a wealth of evidence that gender stereotyping (e.g. suggesting that one gender is less good a particularly activity, or should do a particular activity, or that they are more likely to be interested in a certain field) impacts on our cognitive abilities, confidence and many other aspects, and that neurological differences between the genders often result from exposure to such stereotypes. Read some Cordelia Fine who is doing some great writing in this area.
A woman or man can choose to work or not. Either way kids can still be healthy, happy people and leaders if their mother works!
Corporates and government MUST do more to create a world where women are paid the same as men for doing the same job, to ensure there is legislation in place so both genders are treated equally in all situations and that quality childcare is accessible and affordable for all parents who wish to utilise it.
Your article does not really celebrate a persons right to CHOOSE at all.
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I think this was something that many people took away from the mumbrella 360. The other takeaway i had was for those that want their opinon heard in online forums, especially the negative opinions, have the guts to put your name to you statements and don’t hide behind the computer screen. This is a place for discussion and the digital industry suffers because of people like you. If you can’t put your name to it …. don’t post it.
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Great discussion. Agree totally with Jules’ point about “having it all”. Find your own happiness recipe and stick with it. Dont worry about what everyone else thinks – especially men. You only get one life and one chance to bring up your kids so make sure that you are happy and then the kids will be happy.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts in this article Lara. Really set off a great debate.
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This gets more fascinating every time I get that annoying “ding” on the email that a comment has popped up.
@RB: You are clearly very well read and informed on the issue of gender balance/stereotypes and therefore I concede that you raise some fascinating points that I had not previously thought about. I certainly didn’t expect such an interesting debate to be raised from this piece and I welcome it. It honestly fascinates me.
The point you make about “the statements cited throughout your piece and comment responses are NOT based on real statistics or science, more assumed old fashioned, societal norms.” is also very true. The piece is an OPINION piece and therefore it is my opinion only. I never claimed it was based on any statistical evidence, these are simply my thoughts and feelings and how I reacted to a few words from a professional that I admired. Your point about “A woman or man can choose to work or not. Either way kids can still be healthy, happy people and leaders if their mother works!” has also made my day – you’ve made me feel a lot better about enjoying my job! I am not sure it will ever take away the guilt I personally feel as a parent when I have to miss soccer practise, a school assembly or tuckshop duty but a happy mother certainly does make for more balanced kids. You have certainly got me thinking about a few things. Interesting.
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I remember when i had my first child and i had a realisation (along with a million others you only get when you have one) that i understand why there aren’t more women in senior positions. It’s hard. It’s hard being a mum, it’s hard being a working mum and it’s hard being a CEO working mum with added pressures, responsibilities and accountability. It’s not just hard but work and business just don’t seem so important anymore. Your motivation is now to be a great mum, it’s instinct.
It’s not for everyone but you can get your work mojo back and you can strive for the top job again. You are right that your best work will be done at the kitchen table after they go to bed most nights (with a mandatory glass of red wine), you will need a very understanding partner, you will need to care less about a tidy together house and you will need a workplace that understands you are a mum when you are needed. Time is all about managing and maximise every moment you have with your kids. Many women are realising that they need to do it themselves to have the flexibility and understanding they need – it’s led to the rise of the mumtrepreneur as noted above (my guess is Joe will pop back up running her own business ;). I started my business before i was a mum so it wasn’t a response to needing the flexibility but i am fortunate that i don’t feel my career is limited by the care and attention i give my family. Having said that i think mums can’t expect to have the top jobs if they have a ‘part-time’ attitude to work. I mean attitude not hours at work.
I think work places need to encourage women not only back into the business but to the top senior jobs. If not more women will go and do their own thing and might just end up competing with them – successfully. Women also need to recognise they can be a great mum and still strive for a great career. It’s hard but it’s possible.
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Well said @Sharyn Smith.
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Seconded! Well said!
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@Alison F (10:26am) – yes we realise there are personal sacrifices involved in having children, such is the price of giving life. Everyone however will benefit from these younger people existing. Whether they are paramedics or baristas, they will play a role in society. So until you cease to need these people in the world.. society as a whole needs to support primary caregivers as they raise children and a juggle an often compulsory workload.
I agree with Jules – we need to redefine having it all. When men increase their involvement & responsibilities, we’ll see change. We need the paternity-only leave scheme that Sweden has (one month, only the father can take it. So guess what.. they all do.)
My husband’s a SAHD to our two sons. After a few years in a corporate role – leaving and creating my own company was the only way we could both manage.
Thanks for your post Lara.
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I completely applaude any woman who is able to make that choice of being with her children. As a new mum back at work I hate the guilt – of leaving my son, of rushing his breakfast, of dumping him in care so I get to work on time, of taking ‘breaks’ twice a day to express, of leaving work at 5.30pm on the dot so I can pick him up on time, of having my colleagues be given extra work after hours because I can no longer do it….the list goes on. In the end, financially, we’re only a measly $200 ahead a fortnight. Not looking for sympathy, I chose to have a child, I’m just saying that whilst it’s not TOO hard, it is hard – financially, time-wise and emotionally.
Not sure what the issue is, is it government policy, is it the economy (how did families in the 50s 60s & 70s live on a single salary?), is it feminisim, is it western culture….I don’t know, but it’s bloody hard so please support mothers who work and please equally support those who stay at home. *now back to earning those precious $200
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I was in the room when Joe Pollard gave her first speech to employees as the CEO of NineMSN. I recall her saying it was a life-long dream of hers to run a media company, and that her appointment to the position was the happiest day of her life after her wedding and the births of her sons. So soon the dream is over? That is a shame.
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Thank you Lara for your article and for the little rebuke @Another Anonymous. I was a single mother that studied and went to work to provide a better life for my son. Even when first starting out at work, I was on a low income and struggled to make ends meet.
I am now in a senior role earning better money, living with my partner (that brought three girls to my one!) and I juggle to balance managing that household and trying to spend the time with my son that he craves. I know he understands that I have had to work and that has meant I haven’t been able to pick him up from school etc, but it doesn’t mean he doesn’t wish for it.
My partner is in a senior role also and I know without a doubt that he feels guilty that he can’t spend the time with his girls that he would like to. We help each other out where we can but as Lara mentioned, that still doesn’t give you back the time you want to see them at the Athletics Carnival or volunteer to attend the school excursions etc. The older my son gets and the less “need” he has for me, makes me feel worse than ever before.
Ironically, it was my previous male employer (in an agency environment) who was understanding and did make things easier for me, allowing me the flexibility to start work earlier to finish earlier and work more from home, lessening some of the guilt. At no point did anyone ever have to pick up my work and I did manage to look after all my campaigns within that environment. My current female boss (in the same agency environment) is far less flexible and is of the opinion I can’t realistically be promoted further due to my family commitments. Suddenly, balancing has become a hell of a lot harder and the guilt levels have increased exponentially.
I am baffled to comprehend how workplaces can’t see if their employees are given some respect and flexibility, they feel less stressed and therefore make a better employee which in turn is a more productive workplace. This applies to women and men alike, whether they have children or not.
I envy the women who have been able to step away from work to spend more time with their children. Unfortunately, financially, I am unable to do this. To make up for this, when I am with my son, I turn my phone off so work can’t intrude on my time with him and he gets my undivided attention. That’s all they really want.
The more people start to realise that work is a rubber ball that will bounce back but family, friends and health are balls of glass that can shatter if not cared for, the better off everyone will be.
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I too was inspired by Joe’s resignation. I have had two babies and kept working without much of a break. I thought she was great and I hope to do the same one day.
Amazing to keep seeing the Anonymous beast rearing its ugly head (An Anonopotomous?) – especially after the serious discussions about same at M360.
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Anonosaurus Rex more like it.
Good on you Lara. Great to see an article raising mostly informed responses and quality conversation.
Nice save Groucho!
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@AlisonM…. paramedics and baristas??? Really? I understand the world needs new people but that wasn’t really my point. My point was more about the debate regarding women (and men to a degree) in the workplace and my weariness with those ‘wanting it all’ and then whining about how hard it is…
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Dont bring Rex into this Hamo, he hasnt even been made CEO yet 😉
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@AlisonF I intended to suggest that if the broader community benefits from ‘other people’ raising children then tolerance of said whingeing is appreciated 🙂 The vast majority of parents can’t afford to live on one salary, so they’re not *choosing* to work. They are however choosing to have children. I guess I struggle to see having children as a greedy “want” – it’s the most selfless thankless task there is.
We have to remember that the current working environment is very new (a few decades really), and clearly it’s not accommodating that both parents need (or even want) to work. But rest assured I’m weary too. Bring on some change! 🙂
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Lara, these are great insights from a working mother. Thank you for sparking the debate. It was on the agenda at Cannes with Martha Stewart on the panel.
And i am jumping on this blog to recruit interest in some research. It is an issue very close to my heart.
I put together the panel about this topic at Mumbrella 360 with Sandra Hook, CEO of News ltd Mags, Helen Nash COO at McDonald’s, Lyndey Evans Founding partner of Happy Soldiers and Mark McKay, Chairman at Campaign Palace. We focussed on women in creative leadership roles such as ECDs in agencies and CMOs but the rules of engagement are the same for a CEO.
The outcome of the discussion was there are some companies providing not just flexible working environments for all parents, but real cultural change such as McDonald’s. Helen Nash COO at Macca’s sits on a board of 4/5 women. Other organisations and creative agencies are not faring so well.
I am in touch with a researcher at the University of South Carolina, Karen Malia, she is doing study of creative agencies and looking at the impact of digital on gender roles and leadership positions for women. If anyone would like to be involved in this research please get in touch with me on simoned@thisismango.com.au
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I love this discussion – I have always felt that the reason women are not represented 50/50 in leadership is as much about women’s choices as it is the environment. I also think that the support shown by management is great but it is really about the support of the Dads that will make the difference.
I am not a big business woman but I run a small (micro!) business and have 2 small kids. Many of my clients are very supportive of the fact that I may be interrupted by a 3 year old and are happy to work around that. It is my husband who is less likely to understand how difficult it is for me to make it work.
While he and other dads feel like they are wasting time by being at home with their children he is undervaluing what so many women do every day. This year I earned as much as he did while working 1 full day a week (he stays home one day a week) and the rest of the time juggling the kids to make it work.
Don’t get me wrong, I am not wingeing, I love my job and my family and I realise that this is the life that I have always wanted – where my work and life are ovelapping and dynamic. I am just trying to make the point that until the Dads feel the pressure of being away from the kids or feel the guilt of feeding them baked beans again(!) this week women are not going to be equal to men in the workplace.
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First Up: I applaud anyone that makes a decision that helps them live the life they choose to. Whether that is to be without kids, or to have a certain balance that is right for them to make the two worlds work together as they want it.
I think that the important issue in all of this is that it is a choice. Some of us forget this and start to feel that our circumstances around us are forcing us to act certain ways. Our choices about how we spend our time with our children, or what we provide for them dictates our decisions about where we spend our time.
If you have beliefs that your children ‘need’ certain activities to be happy, or that they can’t be in aftercare to be happy, or that they need you around them a certain number of hours a day then you’ll use those beliefs to drive your decisions and whether you feel guilty or not about where you spend your time.
I’m a single Mum of two kids and on top of that one has multiple special needs that sometimes keeps me up 3 times a night and has big behaviour issues to manage. I’m in a new city with no support as well. I’ve held senior management roles in this business and owned my own businesses as well so I know what it takes to juggle these worlds. The biggest thing I hear often is ‘I don’t know how you do it’ and truthfully I do lead a very full on life and not a minute of my time is wasted.
I’ve had to rethink my beliefs and where they came from though- who said that aftercare was such a bad thing? Who said that kids need to go to sport, dance or music 3 times a week to have a fulfilled life? Who said my house must be spotless constantly? Who said we have to have the best of everything to be successful or happy? Who said that leaving the office at 5pm made you a poor employee?
If I had all the support in the world, a partner that was involved with the children and shared the load, or had all the money available to me to have a nanny, I might choose to live my life otherwise – yes, it would be ‘easier’. It’s really all about doing the best you can with what you have and deciding based on your own values about what is important. Also never forgetting where you want to go for yourself and what kind of adults you want your children to be.
I’ve certainly reinvented who I am because I chose to be with my children 28 days out of 30. Some would say that’s not a choice but a circumstance, but the truth is I could actually walk away and some mother’s do. I don’t know what would happen to them all the same – wards of the state? It’s just not in my values to do so – but it is a choice. My old job was difficult with children on my own – so I reinvented myself and found a new one that worked better. I chose. I’ve even dropped senior management roles and just been a regular employee but found that it was even more difficult than being the manager to be honest. I was dying on an intellectual level and wasn’t achieving what I was capable.
My child with Asperger Syndrome has gone from nearly being thrown out of school and suicidal to vice captain and finally happy, I’ve written 5 books in the last 2 years, made 2 iphone applications, earned 7 new qualifications, rebuilt my career to give myself more independence, set up a new business, I’m just starting creating a new networking group for our industry… you name it. So, it IS possible if you choose to. It’s just how you value your time.
I haven’t watched TV in 7 years (just watch ad reels) and there are many other remedies to make time for the things I value and the same is available to others if you really choose – or to choose to forget about circumstances and get where you want to go regardless.
Saying all that – if I had an involved and supportive partner who shared the load equally I may not be a single parent right now, and it certainly would be easier even now as shared parents as well. The world has a long way to go in accepting parenting as a shared task sadly. This is what I have though… so I have to find the way to get the best possible balance with my choices.
So, good for anyone who decides to spend more time with their kids. Just make sure that the values that drive you are the right motives and you’re not losing out in other ways that you really value too. Decide what you really want and do what it takes to have that.
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Big essay really – big issues. I know my position isn’t typical and I want others to know what is possible.
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@Anne Miles, I really appreciate your willingness to regard your circumstances as choices. It’s true, that we could all just walk away if we chose to (while I am sure that isn’t on your agenda) and the fact that we don’t is, in itself, a choice. Maybe we may are all just a tad overwhelmed by the choices available to all of us re family and work/life balance…
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Amazingly the first time this issue has been discussed at Cannes Lions is this year
http://www.canneslions.com/lio.....ia_id=1413
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I am glad to hear chatter about dads within the various posts. Society unfortunately places gender responsibilities upon parents. As a dad I found people didn’t always like the fact I was a SAHD for 5 years – this meant working from home as well as being the primary carer. My wife had a career she loved and I fourtunately had a flexible work place. I applaud the single moms for you are amazing.
Let me tell you all though, no matter how much flexibility, a great partner or money you have those kids really want you 24/7. Now my wife and I are well past 50, with young adults, the arrival of our latest surprise addition has meant a total change to all aspects of life. My wife has stopped work, turned down promotion and we are reduced to one salary which hasn’t been the case for ages. But wow what a joy the days are!
I salute all mothers and especially those who can hold the family together coupled with a career. Motherhood is an unaccredited career in it self..
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This article is spot on. Women and mothers make choices, but our choices are limited – and for those women who want children (but also love their career), some sort of sacrifice will inevitably be made.
We can have a bit of everything, but we can’t do everything to full capacity – something has to give.
I run a public relations and communications business and have two small children. In order to avoid placing my children in full-time childcare, I limit the number of clients I accept.
Yes, a corporate CEO has the funds to hire nannies etc, but the sacrifice lies in the fact that they’re not personally able to look after their children.
I do agree though, that there’s more to the limited number of high-flying corporate women that the glass ceiling … many of us simply choose to stop climbing in order to put our children first.
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really great discussion & now being 4mths pregnant with my first – having grown up my whole life working hard, making it to middle management and thinking i would be the hard core business woman returning to work – am starting to also realise i may need to adjust my boundaries.
Lara – my question to higher m’gt and CEO’s who clearly recognise the difficulties of juggling family life and jobs of extensive hours/committment – what are your businesses doing to help the regular workers return to work who cant afford the nannies, cleaners etc? i.e. in larger businesses in higher density cities, I personally think it would be better for all to have rules similar to some Asian countries where having a set number of creches mandated according to the size (no of employees), or number of levels in a building.
Need i outline the benefits to business with such outlandish setups? (but i will anyway) – happier parents & children, returning to work & possibly earlier due to the ability to pop down during breaks and visit their precious bundles, & lets not forget by having women being able to return to work earlier then maybe they will be able to make it to higher mgt at the same rate as men and finally even up the CEO stakes a little?
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I honestly think far too many people forget their basic priorities in life. A job should be an enjoyable way to make money and contribute to the greater good in society. Ideally, it should allow you to utilise your natural talents and further enrich yourself through ongoing training and challenge.
But the top priority for everyone should be family — it outlasts every career, and it will really make or break happiness in life.
No matter how much of a power-suited player you are, there’s no escaping that you popped out of your mum; your mum and dad (hopefully) lovingly spooned apple sauce into your mouth as a baby and raised you, and that the ultimate end-goal of getting your 80-100 years of life is to make more humans and make them happy.
Parents inevitably make tonnes of career and financial sacrifices for their kids, but the ones who do never seem to regret it later, once they’ve got a wonderful, supportive family around them.
I applaud Joe Pollard for making the decision she did, and for the career obsessed tossers (especially “anonymous” commenter #1) — best of luck to you.
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OMG!! @Dan Warne, while you are entitled to your opinions, your last post reeks of judgemental wowserism! According to your theory, happiness is only available to parents?
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Oh not at all Alison. Family is parents, siblings, extended family… I don’t suggest you have to have kids to be happy. Just that anyone who puts work ahead of family relationships is unlikely to end up being the happiest possible person (in my opinion).
For the record, I’m not a wowser… I’m all for freedom of choice in all things. I just think a lot of people get caught up in the importance of their career.
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