Snowtown – teaser

I know one of the victim’s family closely. They were very disappointed by the lack of communication with the filmmakers who spurned their phone calls and at one point made them wait two months before replying to their querries. Believe me, they were of deep concern about how their son was going to be portrayed – and they still don’t know. In that regard, the filmmakers and the government have hurt them already.

These are people who are victims of a horrific crime – now being turned into entertainment. I have no problem with them turning this story into cinema. I’m just concerned with the way they’ve gone about it. They were always going to make it, regardless of what impact it had on the families. That’s what shameful.

If the filmmaker’s are genuinely concerned for those affected, THEY SHOULD DONATE ALL THE MONEY THEY MAKE (and I mean gross) to Victims of Violent Crimes charities. At this stage the filmmakers are aware of this honest request but have failed to respond to it and promised absolutely nothing. It’s absolutely shameful the way they’re conducted themselves.

To exploit and profit from this for personal gain (for money, for exposure) – as several authors already have – is disgusting. I’m all for supporting Australian films – but in this case – their lack of due recourse conflicts me.

To the filmmakers involved – please show some human decency. And until you do, I urge people to consider boycotting this film.

I’m with you…its sick a business to profit from the misery inflicted on the victims of these kind of crimes..welcome to planet earth and our morbid fascination with crimes and evil that “happen to other people”. Like Wolf Creek, they keep lining up to cast their creative “insight” on horrific events..pat your pedestrian self on the back Justin Kurzel for a job poorly done.

I must say I feel similarly about the Snowtown story as entertainment. I don’t think you can tar Wolf Creek with the same brush because although it was based on events the characters were fictional.

I’m someone that likes dark films. But this just doesn’t seem right to me.

It’s a tragic story about a sociopath living in the suburbs of Adelaide. And who isn’t fascinated by serial killers and wanting to know what makes them tick? I know I am. I also watched an SBS doco/drama on Charles Manson a few weeks ago and I’m sure you have all watched films about Hitler and/or crime shows on television based on real events. What’s the difference? The fact that it’s based on real events makes it even more fascinating. Hopefully Snowtown will shed some light on how the hell something like it even happened. From this teaser, it looks to me like the story’s been handled really well but thing is, no one has seen Snowtown yet. So you never know. The filmmakers may deal with this tragedy appropriately. Best to hold off judgment until you’ve seen the film.

There are currently 2 families that I know of who are afraid of the way their loved ones will be depicted, as alleged sex offenders and perverts.I’m sure there are others. These people have already had to deal with the lose of family members in a way no person should have to.

Now they’ve been waiting on edge for 12 months and likely another 6 more.

Should they go to the cinema to see their son murdered on screen, just to see how he’s been depicted?

The script hinges on one book source – to buffer potential lawsuits – and the consultant the producers hired is thoroughly despised by most of the people who were affected by this. Where is the other side to the story?

Yes – some people are evil and there will be movies made about it. It’s just the way you go about it. I’m sure pretty soon the company and agencies will be putting out BS spin about how the material was treated objectively and whats on screen is the ‘truth’. But they’re choosing the truth. In fact, I suspect they want people to debate this – because any negativity gives them added attention.

The fact is alot of people were murdered. Now it’s entertainment. The families are disappointed about the consultation process. They know they can’t stop the filmmakers from exploiting this to further their careers. They’re aware of that.

All they want is ALL the money raised to go to a Victims of Violent Crime charity. Understand where they’re coming from.

NO ONE SHOULD PROFIT FROM THIS.

Spread the word.

Powerful stuff…I can’t help but agree with Tom to some degree. Maybe go and read some of the stuff I’ve been saying about Australian culture and our morbid obsession with this ghoulish kind of subject matter over at the Real Ugly Truth. The trailer looks impressive…but I do wonder what drives a filmmaker to make this kind of film? What else can be shed on the minds of sociopathic killers? They lack empathy? They have a blood lust? They seem to be normal people but aren’t, they live amongst us? They could be your neighbor? Mainstream TV seems to exist on a steady diet of this kind of stuff and one does begin to wonder…what kind of culture do we exist in that has a morbid fascination with the gruesome and how we can now quickly turn it into entertainment…I mean what do we do with this information? Where do we put it…is other peoples suffering just fodder for our nightmares? And where is all this evil coming from.
I think “The Boys” and “The Animal Kingdom” are two of the worlds best cinematic studies of the sociopathic mind, I wouldn’t not want to see those films made. Snowtown looks like it might be cut from the same mould…but after reading Tom’s comments I feel the filmmakers are in a real moral quagmire…and do you need to possess the same strange lack of empathy for the families of the victims as depicted by the characters in your movie?..Good luck with that morality trip.

Again – The Boys and Animal Kingdom are based on actual events but fictionalise the characters.

How are the filmmakers going to justify this?

Back in 2006, I remember being at a Wolf Creek preview and during the Q&A this woman got up and screamed at Greg McLean, the writer/director, how dare he make such a ‘sick’ film, and how could the government use taxpayers dollars to make it, and think about the victims! etc etc. At the time, I wondered why this woman was even in the audience if she hated horror films so much? What was she expecting to see?

It’s clear that this woman was not the audience that Wolf Creek was targeting. Same goes for Snowtown.

Snowtown is being made for an audience who like horror films. Like me. Of course, I will be thinking of the victims (I’m not inhumane!) but it still doesn’t take away from the fact that if this film delivers (as in good story, plotting, character development, cinematography, music etc), it will hopefully be an excellent Australian horror film reflecting back to me what really happens in our society.

You can call horror fans sick and depraved all you want, but we are well aware that the horror genre is the most maligned, vilified and misunderstood of all the cinematic genres, that horror films have been described as pandering to the lowest level of audience intelligence, and that they demonstrate no morality or shame, and have little or no artistic worth. But horror fans know differently. Horror is one of the more popular cinematic genres.It is a rich and diverse genre, with a huge palette encompassing monster movies (vampires, zombies, etc), the supernatural, and serial killer films. Serial killer horror films are but a sub-genre of the horror genre and of course they deal with victims (real or fictitious) who come across the monster’s path.

Horror films aren’t afraid to say ‘this is what society is REALLY like’ while other genres are more about preaching how society SHOULD behave. Our conservative society (particularly in Adelaide) is sometimes afraid to acknowledge or admit to the extremities and existence of evil. It prefers to pretend these evil things don’t happen because it’s quite frightening to admit that we haven’t progressed as a civilised society as much as we’d like to think.

Well, first of all none of us have seen the film so what the?
But Tom, you are offended that the events have been turned into entertainment. Perhaps, just perhaps, this is a work of art doing what art is supposed to do and examine the human condition, including, very importantly, its tragedies.

I’m not anti-horror movies and I’m not against this story becoming a movie.

Re-read what I actually wrote.

1) Families of the victims are disappointed with the choices consultants hired for the film
2) Families of the victims have been left in the dark as to whether or not their loved ones will be portrayed as sexual deviants and pedophiles. At this stage they won’t find out until they watch their film – and their loved ones – being murdered in a re-enactment.
3) 12 people died for this movie to exist. Anybody who makes a cent from it should have a major ethical dilemma. This is why they want all box office to go to charity – to help other victims of violent crimes.

They’re aware that Australian films don’t make alot of money. But even if only one ticket is sold, that money will have been made from 12 brutal, painful and gruesome deaths.

If you think this is a rant against horror films or depressing films or the nature of art – you’re missing the point.

This is about bloody money.

Sorry – I made a typo.

I meant to say: this is about BLOOD MONEY.

No one should profit from these murders.

Like john says, we’ll just have to wait and see what happens when the film comes out…art is there to analyze the human condition…how you split the profit from that creativity is anybodies guess..good luck…I’m looking forward to seeing the film all the same, the morality problems are for the creators of the film….let them work it out and keep supporting Australian films, its the only way they’ll get better…regardless of how black, funny, weird, morbid, bleak, romantic, horrific and dramatic…diversity is the key

Ok I don’t want to harp on about this so this will be my last post.

I’m just a bit concerned that people are trying to turn this into any one of the usual “arts for arts sake” and “Australian films are bleak” debates.

It’s missing the point entirely. Read my very first statement:

“I have no problem with them turning this story into cinema.”

Diversity/art/depressing subject matter – this isn’t what these families give a damn about.

Yes – they’re disappointed that they’ve been left in the dark by the filmmakers but they accept that this film is going to come out no matter what. They’ve moved beyond that now.

As for the morality problems being for the creators of the film alone – I find that hard to swallow. I know for certain that this film’s production has ALREADY impacted negatively on people still dealing with the aftermath of this crime some 15 years later. If I/we choose to support it knowing that, then we as supporters are also making a moral choice.

At this stage to offset that – what’s being asked is for the filmmakers to prove their honesty of their convictions – and give every dollar raised to other people who are going through similar traumatic circumstances. To question the exact breakdown of gross vs net, distributors fees, producers assurances et al and to say “good luck with that” is rather demeaning and small – but I understand that this is sad and selfish age that we live.

Look at the bigger picture and you will see that this is a moral choice not only for the filmmakers and the government, but for any intelligent person who is fully aware of what’s being asked.

I can’t honestly support this film until the filmmakers show some respect. That’s my choice.

Ultimately all I can hope is that people do the right thing. Believe me, if they don’t, you’ll definitely be hearing about this elsewhere.

Question to John – couldn’t the filmmakers have “examined the human condition” in a similar way that Animal Kingdom or the The Boys did, without directly effecting the families of the Snowtown victims?

I personally think that no matter how much the filmmakers convince others and themselves that they are making this film for the right reasons – at the end of the day calling a film Snowtown is guarantees controversy.

And controversy is a great way for getting people to go and see your film.

It’s smart business sense but morally questionable.

With the calibre of the team involved I’m 100% sure this is going to be a really interesting and well made film. Justin Kurzel is a director that is ready to make his first feature. I’ve heard from people directly involved that it’s a well written screenplay…

But I question the need to upset the people and families that are still alive and living with the ramifications of what John Bunting did.

The cynical side of me says that if the filmmakers really, truly cared about the victims and not about their own careers, then they wouldn’t put this piece of art out into the world.

And if they felt the need to then they could have at the very least changed the setting and characters.

But I guess they couldn’t call it SNOWTOWN then.

Tom- I agree. I’m not trying to turn this into another flag waver for supporting the cause of “Dark & Bleak” cinema at all..what I meant by “the morality problems are for the creators of the film” is that the film is in the can , its made, its going to see the light of day regardless of what happens, and the filmmakers need to analyze their own sense of artistic morality as storytellers and act accordingly. I do find it strange that the families of the victims have been shut out of the process, I find that very odd. I remember walking out of Wolf Creek and thinking what a load of sensationalist nothing..seeing these large posters everywhere giving stats on how many people go missing each year in Australia and thinking it was a bit shameless and tacky and pointless.
Still by not watching this film the work then lives in a vacuum and then the debate about its worth is ill considered. Maybe the filmmakers will feel the public pressure to donate money…personally I would have had that organized form the get go…so the Producers really need to do some navel gazing there…whatever they throw up as an excuse will sound pretty hollow and you can rest assured the media will have a field day with it. No offense, but I do feel people need to see the film and make their own informed opinions. Somebody else blogged something similar on encore about Killer Elite being irresponsible with regard to mining the personal stories relating to that. I agree with your opinion…but the film will need to be seen nonetheless…very weird how they’ve gone about it. As a writer I couldn’t put pen to paper until I’d met with all concerned and absorbed their opinions…some people are just wired differently I suppose.

People what is wrong with you, see both sides of the coin, stop being so one eyed with everything, i am 43, my 12 yo sister was murdered when i was 18, still to today my heart bleeds for her, I encourage all these movies to go ahead, we lived with the media for 6 months afters my sisters murder and yes, that was hard. But with these movie comes education, some people would think to themselves, well if i had off know that back then, i might have been able to stop that from happining, we live in a very cruel but real world, education will be the only thing that stops these crimes happening, people will be more alert at what to watch for and what to do if they see simular events happening. Do you not realise that there are things that murderers do in common, if you, like i have studied Crime since my sisters murder, you can see a simular pattern to Murder, like the most common criminal charge that murderers have been charged with in earlier crime lives is arson, people dont always read, they watch TV, look at Underbelly, people watch more now, do we hear much about Underworld items now? No! because the public is more alert to crime in plain eye, people are less inclined to do it, Murder storys are the same, the Movie will portrait a very real situation that will hurt the family members left behind from the victims, but the familys are victims too and if this movie stops 1 person being murdered in simular circumstances and 1 family going through what we have all gone throug, well i for one would put up with reliving the event again, for when someone is taken from you, your life changes to protection mode, Isnt it sad that it takes something so horrific to make us go into a mode like that. I really do have great compassion for the families, but don’t take it out on the movie company for bring attentiont to this, Education my friends is life, I also mention to any members of the families of the offenders that if you are worried about the damage done to your peoples lives, i am sorry to inform you, history will have those named tagged forever, they were monsters and nothing less, thank GOD they were caught or how many more would have died. From a Victim to a Victim, we no longer have to be Victims, lets be Acheivers and stop people going through what we went and are still going through. Chris.

Chris reading your comment I’m quite suspicious about your motives.

Either you’re very naive/foolish – to think that this movie is going to stop future murders (how many dozens of murder/serial killer related movies came out during the TEN YEARS these murders were happening, it didn’t stop them. Likewise with your Underbelly argument, how many murders/crimes has that show stopped? Zero!)

But I don’t think that the case. You seem smarter than that.

From what I’ve read, it seems the families (the real victims, like you said) just want to make sure that no one profits from the murders – which I think is a fair sentiment. They said they want the money to go to charity to help other victims (what’s so bad about that?) but the movie company won’t do it. Yet all you can say is leave the poor movie company alone.

It seems to me that you either work for or are associated to people in the production.

If so, I find it disgraceful that you would use your own sister’s death to promote good press for this film, if in fact you even have a sister and she was even murdered. Who knows?

This whole things stinks.

Andrew…yes it does stink and makes one begin to wonder…do bad things happen to other people so other people can make films about it? But still I feel compelled to defend the right for the filmmakers to make these kind of films, we do need to continue to analyze the bleak underbelly of The Human Condition..but in doing so our sense of morality needs to remain in check. From the trailer, Snowtown looks like a very well made film. I simply cannot get past why the filmmakers didn’t consult the families of the victims, remaining mute on this subject will cause problems for the production down the track. To classify this film as a horror as Ursula has just slaps the face of the victims…your tragedy is now a popular culture crumb for us to chew, consume and slowly forget. Still I’ll have to see this film and digest it and make my informed opinion from there. All this does bring a famous speech to my mind:

“Yet we seemingly tolerate a rising level of violence that ignores our common humanity and our claims to civilization alike. We calmly accept newspaper reports of civilian slaughter in far off lands. We glorify killing on movie and television screens and call it entertainment. We make it easy for men of all shades of sanity to acquire weapons and ammunition they desire.

Too often we honor swagger and bluster and the wielders of force; too often we excuse those who are willing to build their own lives on the shattered dreams of others.”

-Robert F Kennedy “The Mindless Menace of Violence”

I think it’s a pity people feel compelled to make films like SNOWTOWN – about the lowest of the low – the scumbags involved were bunch of total loosers, murdering each other and committing absolutely heinous acts on their victims before and after death – as anyone who sat in court during their trial will attest.

When I’ve filmed prisoners having their evening meal while watching the evening news on telly (in both our Yatla and the Northfield Woman’s Prison) they cheer when an item comes up about some car thief being chased and getting away, or some other low life being murdered by another, even old ladies being raped …

“On ya Chas, or Jimmo!” they all yell out – seeming to recognise most of the perps.

We feed their egos every time the news media carries a story about some criminal activity – so just imagine how proud those guys sitting in Yatla, convicted of those awful crimes feel about the movie SNOWTOWN.

I’ll bet they consider all the attention hero worship. How many of you will have someone want to make a movie about your achievements?

In one pre-election speech our state Premier only mentioned two South Australian’s by name – they were both convicted murderers serving life sentences – they were the only people mentioned by name. (He was saying they’d never be released from prison but didn’t need to mention their names.)

The SNOWTOWN murderers names will live forever through this film, and films like this. We are giving them tax payer funded immortality. I think it’s obscene.

I agree with the Jewish view on this, “Let their names be erased” and bury this film.

Firstly, the oddest thing about all this is that nobody has seen this film, yet firm judgements are being made as to its merits.

Secondly, both stylishly coiffure’d cinema devotees and popcorn-guzzling moviegoers flock to films full of depictions of murder, both real & fictional, what really is the difference here? Is it because the setting is in our backyard nestling between the fibros & the Hills hoists?

Thirdly, the events portrayed in this film occurred in an area of significant social disadvantage, the type of area that suffers the most when governments tightens their belts and cut back on taxpayer funded social services. The irony is this film was only made possible by the expenditure of taxpayers money by state & federal funding bodies, money diverted from more prosaic but essential expenditures designed to prevent the development of the culture that spawned the plot-line featured in this film.

So the next time we applaud the building of state funded studio complexes based on the simple creed of “build it & they will come”, or the commissioning of state funded auteur orientated “Film Labs” whose aim is limited just to making low budget features, with no regard given to attracting or marketing to an audience of paying customers, remember the true cost of continuing to provide taxpayers money to make films that the vast majority of the nation do not want to pay to see.

Well said DFH.

End of argument.

Hardly the end…just the beginning actually

That’s questionable, Dolly the Sheep.

And so is your name.

I look forward to seeing this movie. I am glad they used davoren park as a location as this site is slowly changing so we can look back upon the failed social experiment of housing many long terme unemployed in one area. There is such a dark side to Adelaide. A seperation of the classes. I dont think these murders should be out of the spotlight nor the murderers names buried. We should be actively discussing what really drove these men to commit such crimes so we can recognise similar patterns in others. Also it raises many questions still unanswered. Google the snowtown murders and all over the net are stories of untold truths such as a possible link with a centrelink worker (now sacked) who was a riend of the two killers. Quite disturbing really. They took over the running of a Murray bridge caravan park but didnt stay long. Whats even more disturbing again is that many men still go missing in adelaide. One from salisbury not long ago. Boredom can do am lot of things. This is also why I think prisons fail. Lock them up and give them nothing to do.. only killers and rapists, sex offenders should be locked up, the rest should be rehabilitated and leaving jail a changed person ready to contribute in some way to society rather than be tainted the rest of their life. Support SA film making. Those who say film makers should donate all money to victims of crime – why not authors as well? Where do you draw the line? This is now part of the states history. If you bury bad news you only make people naive to trouble when it comes along. peace all

Dave- I was using my real name “Bill” and then I decided on the old clone thing and it just stuck..either way anything anybody says anywhere is questionable. I’ll see this film and I’ll pat most filmmakers on the back for making a film, it ain’t easy this mad world of filmmaking and in some ways its a great creative blessing to have the chance to do it. But don’t you agree that we are living in weird times “Dave”..horrible crimes are committed and before their is a verdict or the “victims” have had time to even process the trauma the popular culture machine has spat out some narrative driven by this very trauma. I mean the mere fact that the Producers didn’t even consult the people associated with this..the victims of these horrible crimes…doesn’t that ring some warning bells about their motives? Like I said before “Do we live in a time whereby it seems that horrible crimes happen to others simply so others can make a buck out of it?” Its worth contemplating and debating ..which is what is going on here “Dave”..so rather than remain basically mute Dave..contribute to the debate. I mean the filmmakers have applied the heat to the victims, I’m sure they knew what would be coming down the pipe..the creative flame burns both sides

DFH- good argument, but also a simplifying of the fiscal facts to some degree, but still worth considering..but you could look at the defense budget or entire expenditure of our combined “burg” on Iraq and say…”maybe before we go and take a dump in another nations backyard we could fix the broken dunny in our own”…where does that end?

Don’t you agree “Dave”? (to be said like HAL from 2001 a space odyssey)

Dolly, I do dig your new name. Much better than ‘Bill’. But that’s aside from the point.

I don’t feel I can contribute anything of value to the above discussion until I have seen the film. That said, from countless viewings of the trailor, the film doesn’t look as if it’s going to glorify the incident. Quite the contrary, really.

One thought – If a film like this serves to shed some light on how such vile acts occur and how they could be avoided, then why not make it?

And how do we know for certain that the producers didn’t consult those people involved?

Anonymous- apparently according to somebody in the know in the above discussion who has spoken very passionately about the subject and started this whole discussion. There’s nothing a film is going to do to stop there’s vile acts, actually quite the contrary..the sociopath/psychopath mindset is here to stay and relishes in the glory of control and attention for its crimes. This mindset devoid of empathy has been here probably since the dawn of man and like some terminal virus…some might call it pure evil…I don’t have the time or the space to comment on it. I’ve said countless times above that: yes..the film should be made and seen…but..I do feel their should be at least some protocols of basic manners involved. I mean I’ve worked on films and scripts where I felt I was treading on difficult territory, it ain’t an easy call, but the filmmakers staying mute on the subject won’t help matters at all. With regard to Wolf Creek that’s just pointless exploitation..nothing else. This film looks like it might go into the territory of The Boys..which is a brilliant film.

Insert Dolly The sheep…trigger happy

Mike Piper I saw your name in the Snowtown credits so obviously your not that opposed to the making of this film. If you had a moral problem with the film why did you offer your services?

I am a victim of these crimes, myself and my family. for this reason I wont say who I am….. but I would like to let you know that neither myself or anyone in my family was approached about this film, we found out about it through friends… We didn’t lose a loved one through this but I was the highest paid under victims of crime for trauma this crime caused for myself and family, and not one person approached any of us. I am going to go and see the film tomorrow and believe me if there is even just the slightest mention of any of us Im sure there will be lawsuits flying……