VFX artist’s message to adland: You treat us like scum, you rob clients and you’re obsolete
A visual effects artist has posted a hard-hitting message to the advertising industry, accusing agencies of treating suppliers like “scum” and ripping off clients.
In the post from Roger Bolton, who created key special effects in Lord Of The Rings, he explains why he is quitting the ad industry. He also predicts that agencies will lose much of their work as clients go directly to people like him.
Bolton wrote:
“I have worked on and off with multi-national ad agencies for almost 20 years. You name it I’ve worked with them. EuroRSCG, Dentsu, Ogilvy, M&C Saatchi etc etc etc. I’ve also been a VFX artist for almost 20 years with a long list of feature film credits. My work was personally chosen over 4 or 5 other artists by Peter Jackson to put the flames and reflection on the ring in the first Lord of the Rings film.
“And yet with every single job I’ve done with an ad agency, I am treated like scum, pressured to deliver to impossible deadlines, have my work insulted and my ideas over-ridden by an overpaid agency creative director. Trying to deliver to these standards and getting “fired” by an agency producer after working until 5AM to deliver a job is one of the things that drove me to six months of depression last year.
“Fire your clients. Well I am firing the entire world of ad agencies. Ad agencies are already half obsolete. Nowadays a small Hybrid creative studio can deliver on both production and post production for most jobs. Clients please pay attention: Ad agencies have been ripping you off blind on every job. I have seen the way budgets are broken up by agencies, at least 50 percent going into the pockets of the Agency partners which means less to spend on the actual execution , production and post. Ad agencies: I will go direct to your clients and undercut you delivering direct results and do it better than you can.
“By posting this publicly I am probably ensuring I will never work on another big budget TV commercial ever again. Thats ok with me. I have an income stream from my software plugins and I would rather do smaller jobs working direct with clients. Anyone thats worked in VFX or production for a long time knows what I am saying and agrees with me, but most people are not in the position I am where they can afford to say it.
“Bring it on 2013. I’m ready to rumble.”
According to Bolton’s LinkedIn profile, the University of Wollongong graduate has worked on ads for major brands including Sony Bravia and Singapore Airlines. He has freelanced at post production houses including Complete Post, Animal Logic, The Lab and Cutting Edge. He has also worked for Weta Digital in NZ and is currently based in Japan as GM and creative director of new creative studio Triple Hexagon.
Bolton’s full post (reproduced with permission):
Tim Burrowes founded Mumbrella in 2008. He worked on Mumbrella until 2021. At various points he was editor, content director and editor-at-large.
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Now you only have to get that message to the clients!!
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Only 50%?
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Yeah, big bad agencies, sitting around in their plush chairs drinking scotch laughing at the millions of dollars that they are squeezing from suppliers. I’m surprised that someone who has worked in the industry this long really thinks that. Good luck with working directly with clients now that you don’t have an agency as a buffer. Clients who now “pitch” individual projects to multiple agencies so they no longer have to pay for up front creative. It’s the clients who set the impossible deadlines numbskull. It’s the clients constantly devaluing the work of agencies and crunching budgets lower and lower that cause agencies to look for anywhere they can make some money to keep the lights on.
Having your work ‘insulted and your ideas over ridden”. You haven’t seen anything yet. Wait until you have a client tell you that they showed their work to their son who is doing multimedia at school and they think it needs some changes (true story). I hope you got that depression sorted, because you are in a world of constant hurt now that you want to deal directly with clients.
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I’m starting a new company, and the fish are coming with me. You can call me sentimental, but the fish are coming with me.
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I’m sure you’re not scum – but not sure that putting flames on a ring is the same as having an idea and following it through to execution (which is what agencies do). are you saying that Peter Jackson isn’t demanding and critical? this just sounds a little stupid. Plus – if you’re going to work directly with clients then Bill Hicks statement still completely applies to you (but please don’t hurt yourself).
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Geesus really? Impossible deadlines, unreasonable budgets, evil clients.
Are you new to advertising? As the CD said, it’s not like agencies sit around thinking “wait, not yet, not yet…ok now give him the brief and make him deliver it overnight. For free. And then change it on him.”
But good luck with it; just not convinced you haven’t just shot yourself in the foot with agencies and clients as well.
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Dude, man-the-fuck-up and get over it.
You seriously sound way too precious (no pun intended) to me, and as such I’d go a long, long way to avoid ever employing a miserable egotistical fuck such as yourself. Putting flames and reflection on a ring – BFD!!!
I too have had, and continue to suffer depression and anxiety attacks (over 30+ years). You work through it, and try not to take everything so bloody seriously.
Also, as freelancer you should be choosing (particularly with your illness) the clients and projects you feel fit within your preferences and tolerance levels. If you’re working until 5am, you’re either way too slow; can’t project manage; or you have zero communication skills with which to address the issues with your client/producer/supervisor.
This industry is tough, but you ain’t seen nothing yet until you set up your own business. So good luck to you with your new venture (rather childish way of announcing it however); lose the attitude (or you’ll be grovelling back to everyone you’ve just slagged-off); grow up; and get a fucking life.
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Yet another ‘cool’ creative that doesn’t under business realities , nor the reality of being a commercial creative person. If you were really a top notch creative person you would not need to produce ‘commercially’ driven work.
We all have masters my friend…….. And if you really think 50% of the budget goes to the partners you really have no idea.
Over and out!
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Hey overpaid creative director. Guess what? I am already working direct with clients and love it. I don’t need a “buffer”, I like dealing direct with the person that can make the decision. Do you know how frustrating it is to create an idea that you know the client likes and then have an agency “creative” over ride you and refuse to let you show it to them. Its happened to me many times.
There are good agencies out there and good people at agencies. I am critical of a system not of particular people or particular agencies. I’ve seen good and bad. But I’m still going to take your clients and deliver better than you can for less money 😉
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VFX is great, but it is more of a tool. It’s not an idea. Ad agencies come up with the ideas and bring in the suppliers to help make it reality. If a supplier is driven and motivated to do the same thing, fine. But they are effectively becoming a pseudo agency themselves.
You can try going to my clients, but many have no need for your particular talents, pretty though they may be.
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BTW if anyone else has suffered and overcome depression or other issues you can join the BlueVoices program from NGO beyond blue. They take feedback on government programs and welcome people to give talks. Burn out and depression go hand in hand with creativity. This is a very real problem in our industry.
http://www.beyondblue.org.au/index.aspx?link_id=3
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No surprise he looks a little like Charlie Sheen after that rant. Winning!!!!!!!
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Hey Roger, do you know how frustrating it is to work with a client’s brand (not just an individual client) for years, putting years of work in to building a long term strategy that is based on customer needs, research and insights, to build all that in to a piece of creative that answers has business goals, but to have a supplier that has no context come in and think he knows how to sell the brand better than that agency because he does the most amazing ring flames in the world?
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Hey Roger,
Best of luck with the venture, its not the agencies as they run on shoe string budgets given by the client. Its just the economy and contracting marketing budgets. All account info is submitted to the client to sign off on anyways.
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Jake, well thanks I also write, direct ,shoot and edit so yeah I think maybe your clients might find me useful.
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I’m sure you’ll be successful then. Perhaps not the best way to start out though.
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Jake said “VFX is great, but it is more of a tool. It’s not an idea. Ad agencies come up with the ideas and bring in the suppliers to help make it reality. If a supplier is driven and motivated to do the same thing, fine. But they are effectively becoming a pseudo agency themselves.”
True, but you’re still in the mindset of marketers actually valuing ideas, which is where you’re wrong. Put simply, they don’t.
Many organisations have junior marketers that don’t understand what an idea is, let alone an original one (and why using one should be their goal).
If you haven’t noticed, there is a considerable ‘dumbing down’ of the industry going on. Mid-weights now hold senior positions (because they demand lower salaries, and hey, clients don’t want big ideas anyway – and even if they do, they don’t want to pay for them).
Even though agencies may sing from the rooftops that ideas is what they’re all about, it’s not. Look where agencies make money – it isn’t for their ideas. Instead, it is simply in bringing the idea to life (i.e. studio hours, retouching, writing code, etc).
For clients, ideas themselves have become worthless.
Thus their willingness to engage production services directly.
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I just had a thought – I also use Final Cut, After Effects and Maya. So maybe I should stop using VFX artists.
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One wonders why this rant was necessary. If you don’t want to work with someone, don’t. Just go do something else. Simple. But a petulant whine like this is anything but professional, and does nothing but highlight what a royal PTA you must be to deal with. And it’s people like this who most often find themselves on the receiving end of criticism and direction because, basically, this sort of attitude ensures they’re the ones most in need of it.
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Hey OCD. Go ahead and do it yourself if you can. Do you also know how to use Smoke/Flame and DaVinci Resolve? You can learn a lot of skills in 20 years, but the most valuable skill I learned is how to delegate. I can direct small jobs myself but for the serious work I have a small roster of international class directors who are happy to work in my style and bypass agencies. We can also supply bilingual production crew for anyone that wants to shoot in Japan. Doors opening Spring 2013. http://www.triplehexagon.com
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There’s a reason he’s an overpaid creative director. He actually knows what he’s talking about.
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I love you overpaid creative director.
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Ben, I am sure that OCD is talented and knows clients. Thats fine, but I am also talented and can manage and handle my own relationships with clients thanks very much. I’m happy doing the small jobs with budgets of $5000-$20000 direct with clients. I’ve done the $200,000 jobs already, I don’t need it. Check my reels, Singapore Airlines working with Vincent Ward, Uniqlo, Toyota Scion. I’ve done my time thanks very much.
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Is it just me or is ‘delegate’ another word for ‘hire suppliers’? Are you not working in the capacity of a Creative Director Roger? You delegate jobs and dictate what the outcome should be based on an agreement with a client.
Sounds very familiar…
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Circling Sharks, I’ll tell you it was necessary. Because people get damaged by the industry. I have heard stories privately of artists that walked away from the entire industry for 10 years because of being savaged by producers. You don’t think burn out and resulting depression, including threat of or actual suicide are topics we should talk about in our industry?
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I guess there’s no such thing as bad publicity. But when I have money and I need a job done, I want people who want to help me get it done, not prima donnas who are offended their feelings and ideas aren’t being attended to. I already have to take enough crap from the people ABOVE me to tolerate it from those below too. Listen amigo, I’m handing over precious, precious MONEY, I don’t expect attitude back, like you’re doing ME a favor. If you don’t want the cash, don’t take the damn job. I’ve run into too many sulky, petty little jerks in the business to have much sympathy for roger.
As for the evil ad agencies swilling champagne and dining on caviar, what is this, Mad Men? The global economy is struggling, the agencies are struggling. And it’s going to get worse. There won’t be much room for big egos anywhere soon, so shut up and make yourself useful.
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Its very very telling that by speaking up and asking that artists get treated with respect I am attacked and called “difficult” to work with. Roger-san wa jouzon desu demo muzukashi desu. Yeah sure I’m “difficult”, I have no problem with that label but the quality of the work I can deliver speaks for itself. My show reels http://www.rogerboltonvfx.com
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And to be very clear why I can say this with no fear. After 10 years of hard work I am independently wealthy from the software company I own. Even if I have zero clients my rent is paid for the next two or three years. However I already have four regional clients in the Kansai area. The budgets are small but the people are good to work with. Thats that I care about.
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Well done Roger, and good luck to you.
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Jake, whats your point? That I’m actually an ad agency? Maybe, but so what.. I’m still not going to treat my artists and suppliers the way I’ve been treated. The point is that you actually get better results by inspiring people to work hard from respect rather than from fear.
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I’m with you Roger.
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Oh well, best of luck then. Sheesh..
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Oh poor agencies you’re struggling are you? Well just recently I was onset on a shoot with 2 RED epics and the director was using a helicopter as a wind machine, with the backing of the agency CD who thought it was hilarious. Their attitude to spending the clients money was pretty obvious.
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And I notice that none of the agency people attacking me have actually acknowledged my point about burn out, depression and suicide. Once again, are these not topics we should talk about openly in our industry?
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My point is that you seem to be denouncing ad agencies whilst simultaneously having one. Seems a bit contradictory. Your attitude to suppliers/artists is admirable though, and I’m sure it will work out.
As to your point about depression, whilst the high stress nature of the ad industry no doubt negatively contributes to those with, or susceptible to depression, I would say that your two points are separate issues.
I believe in respecting your peers and contractors too and I hope you find some peace and happiness in your new venture. Seems like you’re carrying a lot of anger.
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Jake, yeah I’m angry. 6 months of staring at the subway line wanting to take that step but being afraid to. That makes you kind of angry. You don’t see the connection? Fine, but I do and I will shortly be giving talks with the BlueVoices program.
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Ad agencies ripping off the clients on TVC production?? No, can’t be can it?
Surely that 60 second TVC for tourism Australia really needed a $5,000,000 production budget?? Just because endless Feature Films are shot on $500,000 budgets and have better production values shouldn’t be a reason to start untrusting your advertising agency?
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“Its very very telling that by speaking up and asking that artists get treated with respect I am attacked and called “difficult” to work with”
Bullshit. No where did you say that. You wrote a ranty and petulant post that attacked agencies and the people who work there directly. You accused them of being dishonest, and put out a public proclamation that you are attacking their business directly.
I’m sorry that you feel you are an ‘artist’ and the people working at ad agencies are not. I’ve worked in ad agencies pretty much my whole adult life, and find most of the people there to be unbelievably hard working people, that devote their lives to using their art to make a living. These people have their ‘ideas over-ridden’ 20 times a day. That’s how the creative process works.
p.s. I hate to be personal, but you did put it out there. I saw the quality of your reels – I don’t think the agency world will mourn the loss of you.
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Roger, if this is your progress to date with the BlueVoices program, I strongly urge you to find another source of assistance for your problem: this one simply is not effective.
With all respect, I suggest you find a decent Councellor or Psych to help you work through your issues.
This forum, for all it’s merit, is not likely to assist you; it’s now merely acting as semi-passive medium to allow you to demonstrate to the very industry in which you wish to profit, how problematic you currently are.
Again, with all due respect get better help – L.
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OCD, sure agency people can be artists too. And as I have said repeatedly there are good people in agencies. But the reality is that your business model is obsolete and small hybrid creative studios are going to eat your lunch. You can get a a DaVinci Resolve / Smoke setup now for less than $20K and a Black Magic Cinema Camera for $3K. There are plenty of unrepped directors who are more than happy to do small jobs directly with clients and bypass the agency system. I go to power networking events and directly meet the owners of every foreign owned business in Japan. They are my clients and they are happy to work directly with me.
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Not going to express an opinion on the article, but I am loving these comments.
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The real issue here is the difference between ‘advertising’ and ‘ads’.
Creative agencies are the almost exclusive purveyors of ‘advertising’ and so they should be.
The issue is that everyone (be that the client, the media agency, media owners or even a production house like Roger’s) can go away and make an ad. And they will make that ad at a considerably lower cost than the Creative Agency.
Now if a creative agency only makes its money from ads and not advertising, then they have a problem and Roger is only the tip of the iceberg.
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You need to get the ring out of your system, talking in circles on the blog will get you no-where. As someone who is starting there own business I’d suggest getting off this stream and get back to the clients you care so passionately about.
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Go Roger!
get ya flame out.
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Good on ya Roger.
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I didn’t know Charlie Sheen worked on Lord of the Rings??
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The private response to this post has been overwhelmingly positive. I have 3 months of work booked already . There is no such thing as bad publicity. Agencies you have reason to worry . Clients that privately agree with what i say are already coming to me behind your backs .
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Lucio,
If you’re going to comment on mental health resolution, you’d better have some experience yourself. Your comment is insulting, and tantamount to those who say ‘oh, just cheer up’ to people with depression.
You also chalk Roger’s opinion up to his having had depression. That’s not only blaming the symptom instead of the cause, it actually makes you something of a bigot. To label everything one says as ‘needs better treatment’ is just ignorant and is a poor excuse for avoiding the issue.
Can you tell me about your life so I can pick on all the little things I ‘could improve on’? Typical tall poppy syndrome.
So, with all due respect, I think you’ve missed the point completely.
Roger, got any work going? Anything, just want to be surrounded by people who are about people, not greed or stupidity.
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From my experience, @Roger has tapped into a real issue in the industry and that clients are looking for an alternative solution. Marketers are now really savvy about their strategy and what they want, when in the old days the marketing team was filled, at best, by sales teams.
There really are many going directly to production services now and part of that makes some sense and they do mirror what @Roger is saying (only not quite with the same energy ;)- however both ways of working equally have their flaws.
In my experience there are direct production services that are making more money in their jobs or offering up the wrong solutions to clients to their own self serving benefit because they don’t have the strategic thinking that ‘big agencies’ do. There are flaws in both models IMHO.
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Roger, your petty swipes at the very industry that has kept you employed till now does you no favours.
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that’s awesome Roger, three months work booked on the back of this you say…….so you posted this over the weekend, you’ve taken briefs from clients who found the post on facebook (couldn’t have been since 9am on mumbrella), sorted a comprehensive and thoughtful response to those briefs, got a budget locked, had prospective clients review your proposals and have them internally approved, then assigned you the work.
you shouldn’t be in vfx, you should be a biz dev guy.
unless what you mean is that a bunch of people have booked you on an hourly rate as a freelancer for the next three months to do what you’re told.
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Jacob. I refer you to my post of 10:45am.
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jacob, contact me privately through Facebook. Where do you live? lets talk
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Lucio, confronting the stigma of depression is exactly what the blue voices program is about. I don’t need any help right now, I’m functioning just fine, both of my businesses are going well and I have friends that support me.
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Black magic? Fuck yo couch.
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This is by far the best thing on the entire internet right now. Keep up the good work everyone 🙂
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Actually “so unprofessional” my software plugins have kept me employed for most of the last five years. So let me ask you is no criticism of this industry to be allowed? Do you actually think it’s reasonable that every single job is treated like life or death? No one dies if your toilet paper commercial doesn’t go on air on the date that it’s supposed to. it’s not heart surgery, its not even art, its mostly something that people mute or go to the toilet to avoid watching.
The whole ad industry just needs to get some perspective on what it actually is. The lollipop lady that makes sure school children get across the road safely does a more important than any agency creative director. If they don’t do their job, someone actually gets hurt.
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Quickdraw, my studio has three months of creative work on various projects working direct for clients. Thats all I’m prepared to say. I obviously didn’t just start looking for work when I posted that up, I’ve been networking over here for a long time.
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Sounds like another Goth2Boss success story.
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Roger.
The problem is not the subject matter: “is no criticism of this industry to be allowed”; what I suspect you’ll find is the reason you’re getting a general hammering here, is the impression that you’re carrying-on like a child throwing a tantrum.
So let me make this clear: We all get it. We all know. We all work in the same Industry. We’ve all had similar experiences. We all (I suspect) agree that this can lead to depression, alcoholism, cocaine (or insert medication of choice) addiction, and/or devolution into sporadic acts of general depravity.
However, I think also, that most here will agree that by continuing to carry on in such a fashion, you’re coming across as seriously immature and problematic to deal with.
Unfortunately, what I see is a young man still in great pain, needing to find a healthy (and discreet) way to cathartically release his anger. Whilst in the short term you may feel this forum is helping you to do just that, in the long run I’m concerned that you’re going to seriously hurt your career: not by raising the issue, but by how you’re conducting yourself.
So chill dude, and stop the train-wreck. Your approach equates to half of all your problems.
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Love your ‘tude Roger – keep sticking it to the cry-baby agency types posting their arses off on this stream. We, the clients, love what you’re saying.
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A cruel day for golden ring advertisers everywhere.
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I know that if I were to design a cathedral, I’d be hiring an architect before I hire a brickie or stonemason no matter how good they are at their trade.
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@ Roger
I hear what you are saying sir. I have experienced bad agencies. On the flip side I have experienced good agencies. Generally you can tell with 30 minutes of sitting down with a creative team, whether they are good or not. Clients should be able to do this too and if they can’t tell, well more fool them.
There are a lot of cowboys in this industry. Very talented cowboys all the same (the talented part is their sales skills and ‘infront of client guise’). They usually get found out and time will always see the cream rise to the crop.
“Actions speak louder than words”; is a saying that has been around for years, for a reason though; “don’t talk it, do it”.
Roger I truly empathise with you. Some of your comments, on a public forum too, evidently prove that you have a few issues, for which I am sincerely sorry for you! I would suggest seeing a professional who specialises in depression. Perhaps also a business coach too to focus on professional conduct. A friend of mine had similar issues and by seeing a coach has truly lifted herself out of the darkness. She is happy.
Now, if you can provide an awesome service and final product that clients love, well over time you will build a great portfolio. I would leave it at that. Don’t bite on this forum, it isn’t worth it. Let your good work do the talking and move on from this page, no matter how tempting it is to answer every poke and jibe.
Good luck!
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This is really an argument for why it’s important we all have personal ‘passions’ or projects to work on outside of our day jobs. Anyone whose only creative outlet is commercial and they desire satisfaction as a result is doomed to end up jaded. It’s a job. Sure, it’s best to work in a nice culture, but don’t expect a ‘gold star’ for doing what you agreed. If you want true fulfilment, seek it outside of the commercial realms – but be ready to feel true vulnerability and the ‘dumb publics’ assessment of you.
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“I’m already rich, don’t need the money, and don’t care if your ad doesn’t make it to air on time”
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Roger, will do. Lucio, yours is a circular argument and can be applied directly back at you. Roger is at least airing a stigmatic problem openly. He’s part of a solution, not the problem. If you put him down for it, you are the problem. Bad things happen when good people do nothing.
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Good sense comment of the blog goes to @The Ghost of Christopher Wren..
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Sounds like a very angry young man.
I remember the frustrations of being a young actor in a world that seemed to show very little respect for actors, I resented the way that agencies used actors, and I was appalled at the little understanding that agency people displayed when it came to the creative process of actors, and of the almost total absence of theatrical and literary knowledge.
This was before I learned that this industry needs people, talented people of all shapes and sizes. I knew (probably still know) more about theatre and the dramatic process than most agency people, but they know a hell of a lot more about advertising and the needs of the clients and the instinct of what will and what probably will not work. I have been lucky and advertising has been good to me, because I was able to learn to fit in and play my part, which is what any good actor should be doing.
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So, just thinking more about this crazy stuff and the hours and pressure artists in the industry can get subjected to and here in @Roger’s case – where are the good producer’s that managed the process so he didn’t get burned out? Where’s the company management putting some better operations in place?
From my time as an industry consultant I see that agency’s aren’t necessarily the enemy here although on face value I know it seems that way – possibly Roger’s own team and management could be failing to get the right brief, failing to manage the agency and client approval process, failing to manage their own internal operations so people aren’t overloaded, the wrong person could have been on the job, the budget & schedule miscalculated, lack of leadership from the creative director, and not to mention the individual artist not delivering to expectation or just not being the right fit creatively (not suggesting this to you personally @Roger but it is a common problem). There are a number of other issues that go wrong regularly in this type of supplier’s business and more than not the agency is blamed. There is a distinct way of working with an agency and if you don’t get it the whole thing can go pear-shaped. I’ve seen some motion design/post/VFX businesses who have no clue when it is often a simple fix.
The other question is – where was the overtime charged to or who ended up forking out for it? Having accountable time in a business like this is a sure fire way to get management to notice their staff are being abused – @Roger, as much as you may hate time sheets they will be your friend to get someone to notice you more seriously – numbers talk louder than screaming.
Like with other forms of abuse it only happens when we let it happen or don’t have the tools to protect ourselves. I’m happy to help you offline with other ideas if that is of value to you.
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@The Ghost of Christopher Wren – It seems you are comparing the shooting of a commercial to the building of a house. And as a result have encapsulated perfectly the issue we’re all commenting on. You’re all believing you’re own hype.
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“No one dies if your toilet paper commercial doesn’t go on air on the date that it’s supposed to.”
Great comment when you’re trying to start a business and go direct to clients. I’m sure they’ll love that mantra.
Roger, step away from the computer and stop posting.
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@3 day shoot, I’m sorry but you have drawn far too long a bow. While it may have seemed that to you, it was merely an analogy. Way too subtle for you I can see. And by the way, while I am in the communications industry, I am self-employed and not in any agency.
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Wow this thread has been absolutely amazing.
Better than home & away
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Good sense comment of the blog goes to @ 3 day shoot
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@John Grono …
‘A cruel day for golden ring advertisers everywhere’
very very funny.
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You should try the life as a tv editor, what was once regarded as a very senior position with a key creative voice is now a role fit for scum, we are treated like absolute dogs.
Everyone says they can edit, but have decided not to, no-one listens to a single word you say, commissioners and execs come out with the most ludicrous ‘the audience is totally thick’ suggestions and you are forced to shut your mouth and execute them 50 hours a week, clocking in and out, and be ready to have them spit on you if you leave 5 minutes early. When you fix their shit, they get all the credit. 20 years of experience is completely wasted and I feel very depressed about it, so if you need any help….
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Does someone need a hug?
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I am an agency producer, ex production company side and I have worked with Roger, he was exceptionally talented, and difficult people are fine with me if their work gives results which his does and it doesn’t affect people too much. Yes, suppliers need to be more respectful of the agency and client, but that respect needs to always be returned.
Cant anyone just accept that every link in the chain of production is crucial – we expect to have highly talented people like Roger available/on standby .. but every single f*ng time a producer needs to pick up the phone these days it starts with “sorry mate, its going to be a nightmare, can you do it?” and people say yes because its better to pick at a bone than starve … its hard to keep reinventing yourself and your business year after year. Its always the last line of the production that gets fucked when time is up and the money is out. Yes, its business, but people need to demonstrate as much respect and consideration to each other as they can while we’re navigating our way through this changing environment would be much better.
You’re very brave Roger – depression is rife in our industry and you have basically said and done what many cant.
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Hey I’m the new kid. Just got my new freelance brief and it was stolen by the CD. Yup. How do I know? She kept me up all weekend after my other job finished pumping out work and then avoided me Monday, told me Tuesday night they went with an ‘experienced’ AD with 20 years in the Biz and his magic idea was.. Wait for it.. Mine! In. Scamp I had done weeks earlier. When I pointed that out, the conversation went quickly south, and then ended, and now I’m not being answered or responded to texts, emails and calls! I think she knows she has pitched it as hers, the AD was not ever there, and I’m just the new Digital Cultures/Art History/Award grad who gets a nice ‘Fuck You’ welcome to what looks like a fuckeyed industry* (see above) Now I’m going to have to kill you all and start this industry fresh. My generation get it. We grew up with technology. We’re sick of your shit ads and shitty complaints and the way you talk to each other and treat each other. Look out for my thread: interns ideas get raped
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Firstly thanks for posting, I like your honesty and it’s right to speak out. I know people are thinking the same way as you and it saddens me to read that you suffered from depression.
I am not attacking anyone here but I think the issues are more on a global / economical sense depending on what country you live in. People are put under a lot more pressure these days to make things cheaper and faster – this is just the way the world works (evolution) however in the current climate people are in a constant state of fear and the term ‘wage slavery’ springs to mind.
I find on an agency side the management panics putting too much pressure on the artists (no one is going to die if we don’t deliver on time). However on the client side they are always looking for cheaper options pushing the agencies and post-production companies lower and lower – our industry is competing against each other by cutting costs and this is no way to run a business model – otherwise the work will go to the countries with the cheapest labor (which is actually happening).
We all need to work together, treat people with respect to create an industry of quality which hopefully will keep the prices up – rather than undercutting each other and personally speaking may that be working the artist to the ground or paying them less.
I know we are programmed to fight against the competition however the best systems (think ecosystems in nature) are the ones that work together – otherwise do expect artist to fight back and contact clients directly. This is a new industry and I suppose we need a union otherwise things for everyone will get a lot worse before the industry has to correct itself and get better.
Finally can I point out that other industries (financial) monitor their staff’s behavior and there are protocols in place to stop people working late.
Good Luck Everyone.
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@Young&Vulnerble
It’s interesting, usually it is the ‘L’ that gets overlooked in the word Vulnerable, but in your case it is the ‘A’.
I understand your anger and frustration, I know how annoying it is to be undermined. Please let go of the anger and use the experience as a valuable part of yourself as an artist. You are stronger and wiser for this, and that is why the young and vulnerable are lucky; there is always time and there is the experience and the opportunity to grow into a better person.
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Bravo Roger.
Best of luck to you.
I applaud your bravery, and you’ve had the balls to say outloud what many worker bees in ad land have said in hushed tones for years. I’m sure you were prepared to take the brunt of the criticism from the few fierce protectors within ad land, but don’t let them get you down. It’s their job after all 🙂
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With you 100% bro.
I spent two years at a smaller design studio with no bells and whistles, and it’s hands down the best work on my reel. We rarely worked with agencies, and had a great run of award winning creative work with decent budgets. I won’t drop names but trust me, you’ve all seen it.
I ventured back into agency / post production world this year, and it was the biggest mistake I’ve ever made. It’s the only industry were a junior ( ‘art director’ from an agency who’s just in the door) can walk in an micro manage a guy with 8+ years experience like me, as to what looks right and what doesn’t.
Sure, there are a lot of VFX guys out there without a stylistic eye, but lets face it, the majority of Art Directors (which I’ve experienced) are failed designers, or bullshitters trying to get up the ladder off another real designers ideas.
Agencies will stay afloat, for now, eventually merging with the digital bubble when that bursts, and will probably try to absorb a production company in the process.
Mid level post production will implode also, the inflated salaries, the service areas that barely keep afloat (editing, dvd authoring), the fancy suites, the client sassing, will fall apart.
IF YOU BULLSHIT AND ROB IDEAS FOR A LIVING YOU WILL BE FOUND OUT EVENTUALLY, MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT. I’VE SEEN IT HAPPEN.
– STOP GIVING AGENCIES FREEBIES, THEY DON’T GUARANTEE YOU ANYTHING.
– DON’T ACCEPT ‘REFERENCE’ OF ANOTHER PIECE OF WORK
– CHANGES INCUR COSTS, NO BODY WORKS FOR FREE
– AWARDS DON’T COUNT IF YOU ENTER 600 TIMES.
ONLY THE TRULY CREATIVE SURVIVE.
Back to work now, I think I hear a whip cracking.
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Well, at the very least, the amount of verifiable traffic on this thread prove that Mr. Bolton had a real point, and a point that frightens “the untalented”. Example: the hack-aZz twerps couldn’t have their own ideas for for an ad running on a FTA network this week, so what did they do? They just stole the entire concept, look, and execution of the ad from Sia Furlong herself. Stole the whole damn thing from her performance of “buttons” on “Later With Jools Holland” which is also aired free of charge here in Oz.
What a bunch of gormless female puty-tats, of pussycats, of PUSSIES. Can’t bother to spend a lousy 5 minutes coming up with their own idea so they steal the vibe of a hard-working Aussie girl and her band, a girl who has a chronic (possibly fatal) disease. Exactly the same people who NEVER have anything from themSELVES to offer, who always need a guy who can put flames and runes on a ring to make their bleeding-donut-hole rip-offs (oops, we meant “ideas”) come to life in a clip. Of COURSE these creative-castrati are gonna whinge about someone who can DO something starting his own business. Because without guys like him, they HAVE no business.
They are like the half-arse unpublished and un-produced writer-twits paying top-dollar to attend writers festivals thinking that their third-rate, ripped-off from “once Upon A Time” spec screenplay and TV pilot is gonna get them a big score, and that people who’ve been paid to animate ads would be lucky to spend over 400 man-hours on animating the non-writer’s plagiaristic garbage they’ve stolen from a million TV shows (and when I say animate, I mean properly animate ads, not that “Rezzie” for Betta Electrical garbage).
Meanwhile, guess what? Half-arse “no thought of their own” hacks like “So unprofessional” ho had a swipe at Bolton? Anyone who can make a tropfest or flickerfest clip DOES NOT NEED YOU, or anyone like you or anyone like the twats who lord-it-over the people who can layout, storyboard, animate, do VO’s etc., to get the work, but someone – unlike you – who can make that clip for a client can get the gig from that client . But YOU cannot get that client WITHOUT FOLKS who can animate, storyboard, and provide VO’S.
And that’s why you, and the other no-talent crap-tards, are flaming Bolton, above, in an attempt to make the gullible believe “that there is no man behind the curtain, there is only the Great and Powerful Oz”. No, there’s just hack-azzzz-beeeeeatches who can’t get paid without people like Bolton. Suck the sauce-bottle of truth, you boofs.
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Good day, Mr. Bolton.
Under other circumstances it would be fun to engage in the noble effort of replying, snarky-comment for snarky-comment, to the zero-empathy-level individuals who are attempting to bait and antagonize you, using “dog-whistle” tactics, as referred to on ABC RN shows.
But, since they are merely attempting to waste your time because they are terrified of what will happen if you succeed – the same way the Producers Association of America was terrified of the ratification of the W.G.A*. – I shall wait to enjoy that pass-time, which will be nothing more than a turkey-shoot. By dint of the fact that they do *not* in fact have any of their own ideas, that they claim to be so important and integral to the advertising-media process, RE the “architect” versus “brick-maker” comments above (which fail miserably because of the people drawing this comparison: the comparison works when an architect draws the plans for the cathedral. But plagiarists, stealing the plans, or tracing the plans drawn by the architect, are not architects; they are pathetic soft-cOck pick-pockets, as are the “creatives” attempting to bait you, Mr. Bolton).
Therefore, we shall eschew this future pleasure, and instead step-forth, in timely fashion, to the matter at hand.
Mr. Bolton, you share your surname with one of the most beloved-and-respected comic-book, graphic novel and ad-art gentlemen of the past half-century. You have worked with WETA. You have engaged with the Market and Culture of Nippon. You (like myself and the person I shall reference, in short order) know the difference between “Kaidan”, “Kaigu Eiga”, Meiji, Bishonen, “Showa”. You know (or in all likelihood should recognize) “Ogon Batto”.
And it appears, because of that cultural-awareness, that you have cracked the Japanese market.
Which is a market that greatly appreciates REAL sequential-art such as Bolland and BIsley and Leinil and Steranko and P. Craig Russell and Froud, versus pathetic Gen Y wacom-wanklings whom have been too lazy to spend 17 hours on life-drawing, but can spend 7000 on X-box and Playstation before they reach their 30th birthday. A market which understands the value of the difference between some RMIT bong-sucking halfwit who cannot draw but can only “swipe”, and an artist and illustrators who have been chosen by Neil Gaiman himself to make brands sing (talk about P.R. Power).
At least one of these artists would like to “discuss things” with you, privately, if you’d be interested, and show you some images you’d love to see. Created art from disciplines that demand appreciation and understanding of sensei like Hogarth and Leyendecker, rather than badly-wacomed stolen images, that your potential future clients would like to see. Just say the word , here, and they will contact you with pages that markets with target audiences/consumer-bases that love “Death Note”, Hiten and “The Killing Joke” would adore.
Best Regards to you, sir. May today yield unexpected happiness and desired joys to your doorstep.
* Take heart, Mr. Bolton, since you are being hassled here in the same way, and for the same reasons, that screenwriters where hassled and derided back when they began the attempt to form a guild, in order to stop being used as type-writer based wage-slave labour by producers. Producers and executives often calling themselves “creative directors”, ha ha ha – who where anything BUT creative and merely stealing ideas from other production companies or authors. Or non-creatives calling themselves creative-directors who prove they *have no creativity* regurgitating tapped-out-trends, such as whichever creatively-impotent Fitzroy Fanboy or Northcote Hipster-Twat went with the “zombies motif” for the recent SBS Rockwiz spot. Total waste of tax-payer money, complete lack of talent, and absolutely NOTHING creative from any “creative director” involved, just one more hack with no ideas who was completely reliant on… someone like Bolton, to pull off the “waste of time and money, masquerading as an ad”. Or the “kia” ads which are nuaght more than some lack-wit cannibalizing the Hungry/Thirsty ads and defecating out the result of “My wall is never dry, I’m a social-networking butterfly”. If being creative meant looking as good as Brad Pitt in Fight Club, then the creative director for the kia ad would look like Orson Welles during his Paul Mason Wine commercials. Or Neuman from Seinfeld.
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All the best Roger! I stand on both sides of the fence.
Just hope your success won’t turn you into a big agency and all the crap that goes with it.
Take care.
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I chanced upon this article following up a link about The Guardian setting up shop in Oz and it all came flooding back … When I did AWARD school back in the early ’90’s, we were told again and again, if you want to be a writer or an artist who expects the world to “get” you on your own terms, advertising is not the place for you. So I didn’t go there, save for a brief moment in ’99, when, together with a friend, we entered an ad competition and beat the major agencies. Pretty sweet we thought – and then got shafted all the way down the line – from being gypped on the prizes, through to seeing the runner-up’s work being used instead of ours. Learned my lesson then, and am happier for it.
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Is anyone else wondering why this guy decided to put a QR code on his website? Is this the kind of creative genius that ad agencies have been robbing him of this whole time?
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Happy Valentine’s Day, guys!
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@Matt It is easy to make fun of someone that is out of the box and being non-traditional but if you are mobile centric a QR code quickly adds contact details off a site into a phone. I personally like innovative thinking beyond industry coventions.
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@ Anne Miles.
Innovative thinking should naturally reach well beyond industry conventions, but the final concept very often needs to fit the template of just that.
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@Richard Moss – yes, naturally. And the tone, delivery and manner it is presented relevant to the market/message match which is the real issue here.
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Santacrusing #86, I would be too scared to have a meeting with you – mainly because I suspect it would take all day! Tim, I think the 2013 winner of the ‘Holy Crap, That Comment Was Almost Longer Than The Original Post’ award has been found…
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@Anne Miles
Yes, I am convinced that we are on the same team here.
Whole apple or puree ? You still get the same goodies, but one is easier to spoon feed than the other.
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Santacrusing – kia rips off George Carlin, not hungry/thirsty. And god knows how we have all tried to crack that lucrative Death Note/Hiten/Killing Joke (graphic novel or UK band?) market. Have you and Alan Moore ever been seen in the same room? Jus’ sayin’.
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@LW: Then apparently you are “trend-challenged” and have a
pop-culture IQ of under 50, because you’ve failed to heed the
airtime and bandwidth donated to “long-form” journalism, and the
authenticity movement, on ABC RN, which your tax-dollars and Tim’s
tax dollars paid for. The same station where Tim’s dulcet tones
titillate the Culos-Khybe-Passr of the McCullagh. And the fact that
you sneer at, but are afraid of, is this: a real creative can write
long copy, or short copy, whereas hacks can only provide short
quips as you’ve done. And to clients: would you rather have a
meeting with me, for a mere hour and a half while I care about what
you need, time that means I provide you a year’s worth of “grunt”?
Or cut off your own sprog-gun to spite your nads by meeting with
LW, for 20 minutes and then getting sued because he/she/it steals
stuff from litigating sources and has no ideas of her/his/its own?
As in a pop-media-tard trying to sell you an illegal rort like the
“You Make It, We Fake It” contest? A stitch in time saves nine
lawsuits. @ Derwood: if hungry/thirsty has ripped off Carlin (which
it did), then it’s a stolen xerox of a stolen xerox. Kia rips of
hungry/thristy which ripped off Carlin. (Unlike work that Bolton
can do, but Gen “Why don’t they have creative-genitalia?” cannot
provide). If one of your dipshit Gen Y pally-boys rips off some
graffiti crap version of some X-Box cover art which was ripped from
some weak-ass manga, it’s “Six of one, and half-dozen of another”.
@ both LW and Derwood: just because you’re both too young and
self-preening to realize that straw-man arguments have been around
since before you both had pubes, does not mean that you can use
straw-man arguments to avoid the points of this thread, Neither of
you have appreciable talent, Bolton does. You need peeps like
Bolton, peeps like Bolton don’t need you. Proving my points by
ripping off response styles that were old and tired since before
you both ripped off your first school assignment from smarter/more
creative kids does not actually detract from anything Bolton said,
or I have said. Let the adults at the grown-up dinner table discuss
things, and you and Mr. Wacom LW go back to your card-table
reserved for Brats who can’t behave on Christmas Eve.
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@Santacrusing, I can’t decide if you are an
over/under-medicated genius or just a twat who can’t figure out the
Return key. But cheers for calling my 45-year-old
designer-not-even-a-writer self ‘young’! If we ever have a meeting,
I promise to lay on snacks and water to sustain ourselves through
the long haul.
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I just figured out the Return key issue is due to the display on my iPad. So, Santacrusing, you can ignore that part of my comment – the full-stop goes straight after ‘twat’.
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Better to be a twat with talent than a charlatan with no talent. You haven’t even designed your reply. It’s a repeat of a repeat of a repeat seen since the early 1990’s, you hack. Copying is not design, so if by the age of 45 this is the best you’ve got, then the issue is you being A: a charlatan since you can’t design a reply, and B: over paid by dint of “A”, even if you make minimum wage. And chiding someone on a mistake due to a technical fault of the site, then making the same mistake yourself as you’re doing the chiding, pretty much outs you as one of the least imaginative voices not only on this site, but the web in general. Lack of originality (exhibited by all your posts) to a designer is like 5 crippled toes to a ballet dancer. Limp off the stage, hack.
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As someone old enough to have a bootleg VHS copy of Akira from 1991 I would also like to thank Santacrusing for the assumption of youth. I’m actually a suit, not creative, so your proven ‘points’ are actually moot.
If hungry/thirsty is a xerox copy (I would argue it isn’t – at least not of Carlin’s ‘modern man’ monologue), why did you hold it as an example of a cannibalised idea in the first place? I love a rant, but at least be consistant if you want to attack those who work in an industry that at the end of the day is about financial growth, market share and profit. If such coarse and capitalistic ideas grate on your artistic sensiblities, perhaps having those with less delicate sensabilities acting as a conduit between creative execution and the realities of the BUSINESS of advertising has its place?
I would rather be a kid at the card table than the obnoxious condescending uncle who everyone avoids… the full-stop goes straight after ‘twat’, indeed.
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Strawman arguments again, plus assumptions that add up to ad hominem coarseness. You have a bootleg of Akira that cost less than $20? You were too cheap to buy your own copy and to get something swiped, which means the people who made Akira made nothing from your copy of the film? That just says you you are too cheap to pay anyone so all people who can DO something versus quote soundbytes of chapter-and-verse should avoid you like the plague. They’ll do the work and you’ll screw them like you screwed people who need others to BUY a copy of Akira, like I and others did.
And it’s easy to call someone an “obnoxious condescending uncle who everyone avoids” from YOUR position, the position of someone who doesn’t pay for what they enjoy and goes for a swiped copy. Most parasites and con-artists who swindle old folks out of pension money refer to people calling for business reform in similar tones. As for “ull-stop goes straight after ‘twat’, indeed”, better to be a twat than a parasite who can’t pay for a lousy VHS tape. Maybe you’re the business manager for bootleg DVD companies in Bali?
😉
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F*ck me. Well done to all those who commented and work in agencies. You’ve done us proud – particularly if clients read this. No wonder they treat us like a bunch of overpaid wankers.
Get a grip.
It’s a f*cking job.
If you want the world to admire your creative genius. Write a book. Paint a picture. Do something that’s not commissioned to sell product. Idiots.
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@Bobisarabbit
“Like”?
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@ Bob the Short-Bus Rabbit: Unfortunately it seems someone removed ‘Bob”‘s crash-helmet before Playtime With The Big Crayons was over, and Bob has been smashing his (unprotected) head against the wall (again). Which Bob does when Bob is confronted with the fact that Bob could not come up with an original idea, or even an original post to describe an unoriginal idea, if Jason from Friday the 13th was holding a machete to Bob’s microscopic dingus and demanding that Bob think of something himself or “sing falsetto”. “If you want the world to admire your creative genius. Write a book. Paint a picture. Do something that’s not commissioned to sell product. Idiots.” you mean like LYENDECKER who made more money in a month than you’ve made in your life, app-tard? You mean like Neal Adams did for TACO FUC-ING BELL did, app-tard? You mean like the guy who ALTERED SANTA F—KING CLAUSE for the Coca Cola Company, in oils, on CANVAS, you eckie-Tuesday app-tard? The clients treat people like overpaid wankers because people like YOU are too busy sending pics of your shrivelled half-dingus on Twitter to bother to learn the effing HISTORY of advertising, you tard-ling.
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SantaCruising and Whaddup appear to be sharing the same KoolAid – and, I suspect, the same IP address.
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You mean like people who share the same IP at an airport, “genius”? or cafes? or hotels featured in tourism shows?
Same could comment could apply to you and derwood, boyo.
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@whaddup.
Your history lesson, albeit patchy, was amusing. Thanks. Supports my argument, not yours. Silly, silly little person.
I suggest you take a look at some of my other posts. You just made yourself seem the right fool.
There’s an old adage, look before you leap.
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Bloody hell. You guys need to get out more. Bolton’s stuff is valid. Do you really think your ad.s are that good?Do you really think genuine creativity is valued? Have you noticed how bad most of the writing on TV is?
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its all true! I’ve worked for all of the top advertising agencies and we rip our clients off BLIND, we don’t give a sh*T about that either! Yes we’re over paid and do sweat F all about winning.
Sorry to say but ALL advertising agencies do this, ALL!
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Yes Gary and all snort coke and are sex addicts. Did you know that all lawyers are shysters, all car dealers are conmen and all journalists lack intergrity? True story!
r.a. – Dan Brown and JK Rowling are not exactly literature, but apparently some people buy them (and maybe think they are ‘good’). Not every ad needs a gorilla playing drums to sell their brand benefits
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no one asked you peasant! back to the cotton fields.
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@Derwood Stevens – hmmm powerful reasoning and a strong argument… really got me thinking. My conclusion?
You’re a twat.
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hahahah try being talent precious!
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Hey Roger, Just wanted to tell you its not the Agency’s fault. Its just some people that you worked with that are the problem. I worked for Visual Jazz Isobar. A fantastic agency with very good values and overall atmosphere. Funny in my case it was a senior VFX artist that made me quit, who apparently worked on Happy Feet but turns out he was an industry floater and was hired on the basis of supposedly having 15 years experience. He did not have the culture that fit in with the company. I told the agency I was leaving for other reasons to keep a good relationship, but I have never been so stressed out in my entire career than I was while working with this person.
So the inverse can be true, it can be an artist that changes the agency for the worse. I believe VFX artists and agencies are best kept separate (if incompatible). There are plenty of local VFX houses that could do with the work and they probably have a better structure in dealing with problematic clients or unreasonable deadlines as well. The future for ad agencies seems to be in content delivery, not content creation – thats just my personal opinion.
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Good luck Roger. Sounds like you’ve put off starting your own business for too long.
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