Brands get nasty – Virgin Blue attacks Qantas as True Local tackles Yellow Pages
This week has seen two cases of major Australian brands launching direct communications offences against their rivals.
Yesterday’s Australian Financial Review carried a front page ad from airline Virgin Blue making a direct attack on Qantas. And the News Ltd-owned online directories service truelocal.com.au has created a website dedicated to attacking Yellow Pages.
Virgin Blue’s ad – created by Cummins Nitro – was tactical, with the headline: “Qantas says they have ‘more flights more often’. We think they’ve left out a word. ‘Cancelled’.”
The ad was used to highlight data showing that that during May, Qantas had an 80% higher cancellation rate than Virgin Blue.
Judging by the number of shrink-wrapped copies still sitting in office receptions and outside Greville St retailers earlier in the week, I would have to agree with True Local, despite their obvious self interest. And this post summarises our POV on it. http://tinyurl.com/l2g7cc
Interesting but harsh… I must admit i havent used the Yellow Pages in the last five years. Why would you bother? I havent used anything but net searches, such as google or bloo.com, in ages..
YP still can’t seem to see the writing on the wall. I haven’t used a hardcopy YP for several years now, neither in the office nor at home. As soon as they’re delivered they go straight into the recycling bin. Most of my friends and colleagues do the same. Surely there’s got to be some way that Sensis will deliver them only to those households and businesses that actually order them. I know it’s stating the obvious, but what a bloody waste…
Additionally, as a retailer operating in a highly competitive market, it’s been interesting to note that for the past couple of years our category in the YP has seen a significant reduction in the number of large display ads. Clearly advertisers have been spending less on the YP for a couple of years now (and I’m talking pre-GFC here). I wonder why?
This makes me laugh, because whilst I agree with Truelocal about print directories; I will point out the fact that Truelocal is not the no 1 directory online in Australia(.) Fish where the fish are I say…
Check out this view on Google Trends…
http://trends.google.com/websites?q=hotfrog.com.au
2C+truelocal.com.au&geo=all&date=all&sort=0
Self interest, but it’s so true.
truelocal.com.au reports 1.2 million users per month, 5.4 million searches per month, and 27 per cent growth over the past six months.
The business is also exceeding targets.
It has reported solid results since it launched in 2006.
To be honest I did use the Yellow Pages last year, but that was to find my ISP’s number after I messed up my internet settings so couldn’t use google…
To Lewis – regarding where the fish are – have a look at this……
http://trends.google.com/websi.....038;sort=0
Not so smug now fish boy…..
To Simon,
I was simply making a point that Truelocal is not the be all and end all – in fact as your graph points out; it is the smaller of the three big online directory plays in Oz.
Print directories however are useful! My computer monitor is on one and I have another in watertight clear plastic wrap propping up my boat trailor in my garden 😉
regards,
Lewis
Funny, we dont realise that all those who do not use the net dont read these articles here, nor respond/ comment on it.
Saying I havent used the yellow pages for 5 years doesnt say much. Theres a huge popluation out there who probably use the print version and dont bother about whats written about it online.
We all like what we know:)
I was about to post the same thing as Lewis – we have a large number of phone directories wrapped in blue contact and serving as monitor stands.
Other than that, they’re a complete waste of space.
R Morgon; there is nothing wrong with a marketing mix indeed. Eggs dropped in one basket can prove to be a mighty risk and will not always pay off…
I discussed the above with my Father after he had been visited at his business by a yp rep. My Dad’s suggestion of downsizing his spend with black and white instead of colour and featuring with just this b&w bold listing and no full pages etc resulted in much scare mongering and fearful sales techniques from the yp rep. (He went for the emotional method for sure with my Dad.) Fear selling to me suggests that your product is cr@p – otherwise it would sell itself…
Deep down I am sure the yp rep must understand that the small fortune my father saves from this change and smart tactic in this print fossil he can spend on getting found in Google results and increase his lead generation enormously.
SEO
SEM
Niche online directories
92% of Aussies when they go online to find something use Google 🙂
“Good OLD Yellow Pages…”
Lastly, before I get barred from this site:
R Morgan – Is it true that 75% of stats are made up? Perhaps you could do some research and present some stats on the subject?
Finally, I just searched the Yellow Pages for ‘Michael Jackson’ related stuff – the only thing I could find of relevance was a surf shop that sold BOOGIE boards…
Good night. (Taxi.)
A few years ago I used the yellow pages online to try and find the number of the pizza place down the road. It turned out quicker to walk there despite having the correct spelling and the suburb. Truelocal was awful then as well but has improved. If I type it into google I get the address, the map and the phone number. Maybe we could put please do not deliver phone directories on our letter boxes? Would fairfax or news pay for the stickers?
It would be interesting to see the view from businesses listed on truelocal and yellow pages to see where they get more business from. I know a business listed in both and the online traffic from truelocal is insignificant. What have others found?
http://trends.google.com/websi.....038;sort=0
– There are certainly two leading Aussie online directories that get traction compared to the rest of the field.
dude,
hotfrog is just the best of all of these at googleification. As directories they are all equally hopeless.
jerrys
Kate McQ – good to see you talk to your strengths at truelocal. Much more becoming. Still Yellow Pages has your measure with at least double the traffic. And that’s just online.
R Morgan – great point re the audience of this site being PC-based and very online centric/savvy. In otherwords not representative.
Billy C – Google Maps dropped truelocal listings to go with Yellow Pages. Chances are most listings you see on Google Maps are provided by Yellow Pages.
Hotfrog is one of the many online directories that rank highly in Google but never seems to bring any traffic to sites that list with them. Honestly, you’d be better not even listing with some of them – its not worth your valuable time. How often as an end user would you trust one of these? See http://ausmedweb.blogspot.com/.....il-or.html
If Australian companies sending unsolicited emails is illegal in Australia, why is sending unsolicited printed items also not illegal? (Or, indeed, is it?)
If spam legislation was drafted properly, it should have been delivery-method agnostic. I have not had a landline phone service at home for years, and yet I still get Yellow and White Pages delivered. In my opinion, this should be treated the same as spam and Sensis should be fined for it if I report it.
But it’s also high time for legislation to allow individuals to opt out of non-essential mailings from companies. Fair enough that companies need to be able to reach you by post to send bills and important information about contractual changes, etc, but we shouldn’t all have to receive printed telephone directories just so that Sensis can prop up its circulation numbers and sell its advertising for higher prices.
Forcing everyone to receive printed directories creates unnecessary cost in garbage collection, recycling services and would have a huge carbon footprint from the massive paper consumption every year through to the delivery of the heavy books to premises Australia-wide.
The main issue to my mind is the environment. The carbon footprint of the printed YP must be enormous when weight, bulk and transport are taken into account.
It is time that the householder were given the choice to receive it or not. Any comment from YP would be gratefully received.
Everyone has said that they agree that they have not used a printed phone directory in years, and I am no different. However, how many times have any of you used “TrueLocal” or any online directory when you can just “google” it? I note that they include figures of the downfall of their competitor, but make no reference to traffic figures for “TrueLocal” in comparison. Cheap form of advertising if you can’t prove your service is better.
99 out of 100 people wouldn’t even know what True Local is. It’s getting a slight free ride from Google with map inclusions but it shouldn’t be throwing stones given it’s been a lemon for almost 5 years now.
Online directories allow businesses of all sizes, (who sometimes do not have websites, or do not understand seo, or (for the top end of town) are advised by ignorant ad agencies to have flash ‘skip intro’ websites that cannot be found by Google at all…) to get found online.
Online directories can be a 2nd fishing line in the online marketing pond on top of a companies’ own website.
There is definately a place for online directories.
In speaking of printed directories:
– YP should defo be a ‘subscribed to’ directory. I think that ‘some’ people still use it (a big brand like yp does not simply die over night) however I guess the users will be diminishing year by year for sure and thus a big adjustment needs to be made.
For every household to receive two big books, plus a small ‘car version’ (he he) every year is criminal in these carbon concerned times.
It is in Sensis’ interest to control the supscription – they are chucking away so much cash on paper / printing / that gets binned! Think of the money Sensis will be able to save and reinvest into other areas of their business! Plus YP and their advertisers would have true clarity as to how big their print subscription base is and YP would be able to sell the true value of their printed directory and adjust costs in doing so for the advertiser. Everyone would be a winner.
Hopefully ethics and responsibility will be the winner and Sensis will role out a subscription only YP print directory and communicate the true demographics to it’s advertisers.
We’re not saying anything negative about Yellow Pages online. We’re not saying advertise with TrueLocal or Google as opposed to them.
We are simply highlighting the fact that the readership of the Yellow Pages print directory is decreasing – with almost 4 out of 5 Australians using the Yellow Pages print directory at least once a month or not at all according to factual and independent research company Roy Morgan.
People have told us through the research carried out by Core Data (yes – Steve, which truelocal.com.au commissioned) of more than 1,000 people that they would like the choice on whether they receive the print directory or not.
Isn’t it worth discussing this call for choice regarding the Yellow Pages print directory voiced by consumers? And why shouldn’t businesses be aware of the declining readership when they are spending valuable money trying to reach consumers? Perhaps it’s because print advertising is worth around $1 billion to Sensis.
Google “Yellow” (pages from Australia search)
TrueLocal are buying ‘Yellow’ in their Google Adwords campaign…
TrueLocal must value the yellow brand…
If TrueLocal spent more time actually understanding how they could give online users value and less time worrying about their competition; their website might be better placed than it is: (Struggling compared to the forces of YP online…)
Online wise:
– Yellow remains yellow
– Blue seems to have the blues…
The way News/True Local is buying the term ‘Yellow’ on Google is bordering on desperate.
I wonder how they’d feel if Sensis bought term ‘True Local’ and tried to push users through an actively anti True Local destination. I’m sure the big guns at News wouldn’t like that.
But it’s unlike News to say one thing and do the complete opposite isn’t it (Google, Twitter, outbound linking etc etc)
Ben from Aus Med Web.
I hope you are not advising clients about how to reach an audience online? If you are, then I would suggest brushing up on your knowledge!
Online directories are gold for any business looking to be found online.
What does Google return in search results? I will answer this one for you: Content… Directories harbour masses of content and if you are not at the party you might never get found. Online directories help Google to do it’s job of returning relevant results.
I just Googled “Ausmed” and couldn’t find your blog. Another consultant out there who doesn’t quite get it me thinks…
Adam
My point is that search engine ranking and listing in directories aren’t of any consequence if people do not actually visit those sites or your website as a result. My experience has been that we get negligible traffic from all but a handful of well established or specialist niche directories. Perhaps yours is different?
As to whether directories having “content”. I think you’ll find most directories have minimum content. There are some exceptions but basically its a repetition of “basic” information that can be found on many other directories out there which limits the content’s value to Google and other search engines.
I’m sure I’m not the only one who things so. See eg http://marketingeasy.net/dmoz-...../#comments
Thanks for replying Ben.
Directories have a value online. From big a-z’s to smaller niche ones. Consider good old fashioned supply and demand.
People go online to source stuff nowadays. The biggest consumer medium is the web; now regarded by consumers as a utility, it is that big.
How many businesses out there do not have their own website? How many do have a website, however the seo if poor. Bingo! These guys can list in online directories to get found online. Having said that I know many businesses with websites and who list and gain good leads from online directories.
There is a need for online directories big and small, until the supply diminishes they will continue to operate and provide a marketplace online for many businesses big and small.
I’ve seen the yellow books come in each year and for the last three years I’ve counted the pagination of the Sydney book (those pages with ads at least). Sensis have had a year on year decline.
2007: 2,884 pages
2008: 2,608 pages
2009: 2,439 pages
So 2007 to 2009 is a 17% drop. In an environment where consumption is declining Sensis have been able to maintain revenues by increasing page yields. It’s obvious Sensis have a revenue problem as they can’t continue to lift rates with declining circulation. If Sensis allowed consumers to request they don’t receive a book they would face significant drops in circulation and therefore readership and therefore revenue per page. You’ll see Sensis fight very hard to squash any idea that consumers could choose to not receive a book.
I think True Local / News Corp have been very smart to tap into the latent consumer frustration of the environmental damage done by the unrequested books. It takes someone of their capacity to challenge Sensis on this wastage and I think they’ll get mileage as a result.
This one is going to be fun to watch …
John – you have been able to request not to receive a directory for a number of years now. No secrets, just providing choice. It’s the strong usage of Yellow Pages that drives the value for advertisers and our business, not just simply circulation. Almost 7m per month, more than 4m searches a week. And that’s just print.
Steve, do you think we are all fools?
– More than 4million searches per month in the printed Yellow Pages?! How on earth can you prove this?
I have never been approached to take one of your surveys? I have asked everyone I know if they have ever taken a YP survey – they havent either?
– Just who is it who partakes in your survey / how can I take your survey?
Plus, if it is more than 4m searches a month what does the 7million stand for? It cant be users of the printed directory surely?!
If so, you are saying that a third of the population uses the printed YP directory every month? – that is simply untrue. You dont need to take a survey to know that.
I live in a unit block with five other units in the block. Your directory arrives and sits in the foyer for over a month before (I did last time) I chucked them ALL in the trash…
Btw I will defend you online. You smoke TrueLocal. “Yellow turning Blue” really troubles me. What a ridiculous thing to do when TL is such a pathetic website. You have them online by far Steve. However you guys have seriously got to sort out your print strategy and get with the times and stop living, selling, telling a lie(.)
I say government should get involved and set some legislation concerning your carbon footprint and un-ethical revenue streams, based on shoddy demographics. It is about time businesses received some value from Sensis.
– I dont know how some of your sales reps can sleep at night?
p.s. can you point me to the form I need to fill in to cancel my yp print subscription? i will share that with my unit block, colleagues, family and friends too…
If you google the word Hotfrog you can see a Truelocal adwords campaign for that term. If I’m not mistaken didn’t Truelocal have the same thing done to them, and they got Google to pull the campaign as it infringed on their trademark???
Still, I’m sure Hotfrog has seen this, and the fact that they haven’t done anything I think relates to how much of a player Hotfrog perceive Truelocal to be…
Hi Anonymous_Coward,
You mention that you’re not sure if Hotfrog have seen this. Can you not mention it to them? I see from your IP address that you work in the same building.
Cheers,
Tim – Mumbrella
Adam – just putting forward the relevant stats from Roy Morgan research. We watch and report closely as usage is important and a key way for us to show value to advertisers. You may not have been approached by Yellow Pages to take part in a usage survey because it is done by Roy Morgan. Contact them to see if you can take part – http://www.roymorgan.com.au/
Roy Morgan also reports that almost 7 million people the Yellow Pages directory each month. You (and likely those you know) may not be among them but the numbers are there.
Thre’s also plenty we do and even more we are looking to do in terms of the enviro credentials of our directories. We currenty use recycled materials in the production of our directories, we recycle leftover paper materials from our production process into things like insulation and kitty litter, and we encouraging people to recycle their old directories. in 2007/008, 96% of Austraians recycled or reused their directories.
And if as you say you’d rather use http://www.yellowpages.com.au and not receive a print directory, you can request that with us bby calling 1800 810 211.
…and what does that tell you mate, LOL!
Its a good strategy pointing to what everyone in the media space knows.
Its the big yellow dinosaur in the room.
Sending books wrapped in plastic isn’t reach.
And reach is what the poor punters are paying for.
I think there should be a site/telephone number – whatever – that allows you to say you don’t want the Yellow Pages delivered to you. Maybe I’ll start a little biz making ‘NO YELLOW PAGES’ stickers for my front gate.
@Lewis – it’s only in the online world that 75% of research is made up.
@ Dan – I didn’t realise that Yellow and White Pages didn’t work on mobiles, or at least that SEEMS to be what you are implying by saying you are no longer a landline home but still get the books delivered.
@William Felt – Online my dear man is accountable. Print on the other hand can often be fabricated. Lets take “readership” for example: A publication is sent to 10,000 and guess what?! The publication has a readership of 30,000?! The results from the “survey” to find out the publications “readership” were edited by the publisher and only the stats that suited were published…
@tree-hugger – Sell me a sticker!!! Perhaps we could sell them for $5, which will cover the cost of making them and offset our carbon footprint with the change. (YP should take a leaf there; two directories delivered in plastic and 3/4’s of them tossed in the garbage…) Are Sensis mental? Are people who advertise in the print YP mental? Pig ignorant more like…
@Adam – Online is more countable than accountable old sausage. But before I explain, consider that a magazine is purchased by 10,000 consumers (it’s called audited circulation) who read it and then pass it on to 20,000 friends and family (it’s called readership – and yes it is an estimate, but a believable one – and I know that doesn’t mean all 30,000 read my ad but neither does everyone look at the banner ad).
In the online world we tend to talk about the audience as “uniques”, and we tend to look at them over a month. However, over a month users delete cookies. On any one day “uniques” equals users once you filter out all the non-human traffic (I assume you ARE filtering bots and spiders out). However over a month as users delete cookies, each “unique user” will tend to have 2-3 cookies per site, and in some cases sites can accumulate 10, 20. even 30 cookies per site – yet we still persist in calling them “uniques”.
That’s why in a country with a population of 21.7m people, of which around 80% go online in any given month, we end up with a monthly “uniques” of over 45m! Let’s see, that’s more than twice the population and around 2.5 times the online population but I am supposed to believe that. Yet, you seem to be implying that the readership estimate example you used is fatally flawed because readership exceeds circulation. I ask who is the more accountable now?
As I said at the start, online is the most countable medium … but just because you count things doesn’t make you accountable!
There’s also the matter of how leads and conversion are counted/accounted. For some, the definition of a lead has grown to include a click, a download, a visit to a website etc. That’s fine if you’re aim is online traffic or awareness etc, but what if your aim is customers through the door and sales in the bank. Those leads are very different and need to be counted/accounted in a different way.
@ mal jago punters/businesses pay for usage of print, measured by independent co’s such as Roy Morgan
@ Adam – big statement calling 400,000 small businesses mental or pig ignorant
So for everyone still asking, Steve@Sensis posted that the number to cancel the delivery of Yellow Pages is:
1800 810 211.
@Steve@Sensis
Someone I know just called that number to cancel their deliveries and was told it is not possible.
Could you please explain this?
While we’re on the subject of being accountable – http://farm3.static.flickr.com.....e246_o.jpg
Good debate. Finally we see some debate!
Less number massaging, more honesty. Like it.
@steve sensis – I really rate you saying your from Sensis.
Roy Morgan usage of print comment– Could you explain to all of how Roy sits out the front of my house and ticks [did not collect Yellow pages]
We have opposing views and thats a good discussion.
Advertising in YP sold on the basis of the number of people who have these books. Delivery isn’t reach.
Sensis YP are managing a declining asset and it’s been an amazing cash cow for years.
People have more options to promote their business and better educated on their media spends.
Tim, we know you write these posts about the YP every couple of week just to get your comments number up (and the same old self-interested suspects fall for it each time with their sweeping generalisations and unsupported opinions)…but meanwhile back here in the world of accountable media planning, we know that it doesn’t matter when I personally last looked up the YP or whether it’s collecting dust outside my front door. What matters is, upon researching various options, it remains relevant to a particular target audience at an effective rate.
No delivery isn’t an indicator of an involved audience, any more than TARPs tell us who loved a TV show and didn’t go pee in the last 15 minutes. We’re on to it. According to some commenters, all advertisers in the YP must be morons…or maybe, just maybe, they’ve figured out an effective media mix that works for them at a price that makes sense? Maybe not ALL their customers are interested in searching online directories? Or is my mum a moron too?
Yes there are more options nowadays…no shit Sherlock. It’s called ‘fragmentation’ and it affects every media category, not just directories. Every media category has had to react to fragmentation in one way or another if they want to stay in business. Every category has to figure out how to stay on the schedule versus new competitors…whether by targeting, or price or offering new benefits. Back in the day Sunday movies used to rate into the 30’s. Now they’re lucky to get 8’s and 9’s. On that basis, should we cancel TV on Sunday nights? Or maybe…the marketplace has adapted and both supplier and buyer has figured out a new context for this timeslot. The YP is no different. If it was a ‘dinosaur’ for all people, it would be extinct – that simple.
So….any chance Tim you can lay off the YP stories for a while? Or maybe give the topic it’s own site…”Yellbrella”? Honestly it makes my head hurt. I didn’t have to explain the basics of accountable marketing this much to my first year Uni Advertising class.
You’re welcome.
Hi Rachael,
This post is a bit like Glenn Close at the end of Fatal Attraction. It keeps leaping back to life. Believe it or not, if you scroll all the way to the top, this is the piece from last month.
If memory serves, comments automatically close after 30 days, so in a day or two, the pain will be over. Until I do another directories posting of course…
Cheers,
Tim – Mumbrella
Thanks Tim,
Seriously though…”Yellbrella”…think about it.
Cheers, RL
@Mal – of course Morgan don’t sit outside every house counting the YPs taken inside. It’s just like the doctor doesn’t take ALL the blood out of your body for a blood test – that’s why it’s called a blood sample. What is this obsession with having to count EVERYTHING – especially when way too many people are focussing on counting the wrong thing.
@ Rachel – well said, couldn’t agree more.
@ Tim – what about a site for the ‘fans’ of the short lived “Dance Your Ass Off” … Bumbrella?
Rachael,thanks for your industry rhetoric.
The justification I’m sure impresses your year 1 students/clients
Thanks Mal. It certainly does because it is based on being neutral and open minded to their marketing solutions (my personal opinions or where I get my income are irrelevant), and is backed up by sound accountable industry practice.
Sorry if that doesn’t suit your agenda. I didn’t write Marketing 101 but I certainly have read it.
Full disclosure because I’m not connecting to a URL…I’m the Strategy Director for MPG Australia. I have no idea if any of our clients are in the YP or not (I don’t usually see down to such a granular level) but I would defend their right to be if it works for them.
And no I don’t have a copy of the YP in my house either. But my consumption or not of the YP is irrelevant. Or should be.
30 days time the comments cease!
@Rachel, what are you blurting on about?!
OK, stats aside and accountability aside. drum roll….wait for it……..
@Stevo from Sensis; my dear fellow. Please could you guys at the mighty Sensis only send out your blessed print directories to those who subscribe to it? Please do your advertisers, your own publishing costs, your credibility as an ethical business and the environment a favour?
– makes total sense to the majority mate.
Adam
p.s. Steve if you ran your own business would you spend tens of thousands of your own money advertising in the printed YP directory?
– Didn’t think so…
@Adam….it’s Rachael…two a’s.
@Rachael; apologies. 🙂
Rachael, great post and insight. Yet when it comes to Yellow flawed.
The reason that this Mumbrella thread gets so much feedback is that there is a significant frustration in the market regarding the Yellow Pages print including:
The Waste.
So many people don’t want it and don’t know how to stop the books arriving. Yes Sensis have a phone number but that’s very hard to find and re-active. Sensis are motivated to keep the circ high to maintain yields and the environment suffers. In major metros you can’t ignore the piles of unwanted books particular in commercial or high density residential areas.
The Research.
Sensis/Roy Morgan’s research about readership just does stand up to anyone’s understanding of the books usage. They are just so unbelievable that they are discarded outright. The problem: Sensis are in between a rock and a hard place – any move to reality reporting on readership is going to communicate a massive drop with commensurate drops in ad yield. In you are in Sensis thinking about putting out honest numbers your CV better be up to date …
The Advertiser.
The book is full of unsophisticated marketers who don’t understand the changes in the media landscape and are not skilled to move their media accordingly. Yes Google have done very well in the last few years in this category, primarily on the back of aggressive resellers, but this is taking spend from others, for the moment. Sensis leverage this unsophisticated audience well and retain yields based on one very powerful sales tool – FEAR. Dropping your ad in Yellow print is a big deal. It’s an annual product and if you have made a mistake, is it 12 months till your next opportunity to advertise. More importantly if you do decide to come back you will have lost your position on your ad size – you’ll be behind your competitors. Drop your size and you’ll be at the back of that group. For this reason, in the book, Sensis have been able to increase yields, grow revenue (modestly) but reduce pagination. Many advertisers are recognising that their upgrades in ad size have brought no additional business. Advertisers increasing spends, with declining results through fear and ignorance is a ticking time bomb …
TrueLocal are a nightmare.
I use both PureLocal.com.au
and TrueLocal.com.au and they both get the same number of referrals , PureLocal probably more so and have more tools. The price difference between these 2 major directories are so different I’m not sure how TrueLocal manage to stay in business. I once , a long time ago , actually paid TrueLocal about $200/month for “advertising” – worthless. I currently pay TrueLocal $0 and PureLocal $9 per month with good results.