The fight for equality is not over; I call ‘bullshit’ on Saatchi’s Kevin Roberts
Following on from the suspension of Saatchi & Saatchi chairman Kevin Roberts after he claimed there was no problem with gender diversity in the ad industry, Michelle O’Keeffe calls “bullshit” and says the fight is not over.
I am the CEO of an awesome digital agency in Sydney. And I am a woman. And to Kevin Roberts, Saatchi & Saatchi chairman, and anyone else who shares his opinion, I call ‘bullshit’.
About a year ago I was having a ‘dinner debate’ with a very dear friend of mine, and successful author, about feminism and in particular her passion for the Bechdel Test and how women are oppressed. My response was to ask her to please not put me in a box, that I didn’t identify as an oppressed woman and I didn’t appreciate being told I was in this box whether I liked it or not.
But maybe it’s not all about me and my ‘box’? Maybe it’s time I realised that while I have experienced endless encounters of harassment and tried to not let it get in my way, maybe I should actually vag-up and call out the bullshit that women experience.
I’m interested in the comment about being bought jewelery by a male boss – i’ve been responsible for female employees getting jewelery for things like leaving presents, as recognition for great performance or long service – have I been unknowingly sexist and oppressive ? Should it be bottles of whiskey all round ?
I’ll have the jewellery. I don’t think someone buying you jewellery is a sexist thing. I can imagine the gifter was probably trying to do something special, but maybe just got it wrong ?
Michelle, you must be an extraordinary individual who has managed to rise to the top despite all this oppression.
Not to mention unusually attractive, seeing that all these men keep coming on to you.
You work in an industry that prides itself on data, yet you draw conclusions based on a biased focus group of one. So please allow me to play the devil’s advocate (fun-fact: we complain about God not being a women, but nobody seems to mind that the devil is a man):
Being thought of as a secretary, was this in 2016 or a few decades ago?
Would you object if the office hunk of a Brad Pitt look-a-like bought you jewellery? Or would you be flattered (be honest)?
Could it be that ‘pretty little thing’ is simply meant as a compliment? A silly, old-fashioned one to be sure, but nevertheless.
Do you think groping doesn’t go both ways? I’ve been groped many, many times. By men and women. And I’m a man.
Do you have any idea what women can be like? I’ve come across many extremely assertive and arrogant women, including several bullies in senior positions. Should I make any general conclusions about women based on these? Or blame men perhaps?
Where are all the examples of great guys throughout your life and career? Haven’t you met any? Why aren’t they representative of any kind of culture?
Going to networking events by yourself, being berated by senior people, sounds like anyone’s experience in any industry ever.
If these are the best examples of “oppression” you can come up with over a lifetime, could it be that it’s not really that bad? Could it be that there just happens to be many idiots out there, men and women, and that this rather short and trivial list doesn’t point to any systemic or cultural issues whatsoever?
With all the daily violence towards and oppression of hundreds of millions girls and women around the world I find it the self-pity and narcissism of privileged Western professionals a sad sign of our modern world.
You have created a conspiracy theory about the patriarchy and declared open season on white men so that you don’t have to take responsibility for anything that goes wrong in your life.
You like diversity? What about diversity of opinion?
Let’s treat each other like individuals, not just as members of a gender or race. Kevin Roberts said something that may or may not be factually correct. Fight him with facts, not emotions, and have some freaking empathy with a man who’s down. Aren’t women supposed to be good at that?
Life is unfair. Grow up.
This comment is outstanding. I would let the anonymous man have his diversity of opinion.
Just one comment on the “old fashioned compliment” that I found the most ridiculous. Have you been called “cute little boy” by your colleagues or seniors? “pretty little thing” is old fashioned for sure, nevertheless demeaning and condescending. Do you think its cute to keep those old fashioned attitudes towards women?
This anonymous man is anonymous because we all see what happens to men with the wrong opinion. You hunt him down and ruin his career. Because you can. Feminism has empowered you to behave like a pack of schoolyard bullies.
Unsurprisingly, you miss my points entirely and dismiss them instinctively.
The fact that “who calls who what” is what you pick up on only reinforces my point about the trivial and narcissistic nature of this ideology.
Have I been called a cute little boy? If I did I clearly didn’t store it away for some sanctimonious article 20 years later.
Old-fashioned people have old-fashioned views about everything. Her example was from 20 years ago, so those comments are largely gone now, which is great. So don’t use them to suggest there’s a war on women going on when it’s clearly not the case.
Take all that energy you put into being offended and spend it on women with real problems.
Sounds like you are the one with the baggage, devil’s advocate. You say we should treat each other with respect, why don’t you practice what you preach. Lecturing, judging and berating are not attractive traits in any gender. As ghandi said, be the change you want to see in the world ….
Gee, devil’s advocate, I’m glad I don’t work for you. we’ll all just shut up then, shall we? Looks like we’ve been told. Again.
Wow. Spoken like a true man. Well done.
How fucking sexist are you?
Hey Devil’s avocado.
There endless facts to support gender bias against women in the workplace, in terms of sexual harassment, pay gap and more. A cursory Google search will reveal these. These support your point that life isn’t fair, especially for women, and especially for women in our industry.
Data is great. But there is still a role for people to share their experiences and point of view on an issue or topic. People like Kevin Roberts, and people like Michelle O’Keeffe.
If you have experience being oppressed, or feel there is a challenge in our industry that needs calling out, then why not pitch it to Mumbrella?
@Data
Just saying there’re “endless facts” doesn’t make it so.
The pay-gap btw is a myth so thoroughly debunked by now it’s embarrassing to bring up. Different pay for equal work is illegal and ends up in court. The difference in pay is because of people’s choices. Sexual harassment exists and is being punished, as it should.
We’re all being treated unfairly sometimes, but we can’t run to the media or the authorities every time something doesn’t go your way. Calling these things oppression and harassment only fuels the culture of victimhood that threatens a free democratic society by demanding laws and policies to be based on emotions.
A man is about to lose his job for something he said. How not more people see that as a problem is beyond me.
It doesn’t always end up in court, you are an uneducated fool if you make sweeping statements like this. As a woman, I know my pay has been different for the same rules as men BUT if I make a fuss it lands on the ears of someone like you and I get LABELLED as being forceful or ungrateful. It’s really making me laugh, watching your pathological lies try to shut women down. People like You are one of the reasons we do still find inequality so may I congratulate you on your one eyed opinions.
Walk a mile in my shoes, buddy. If you have a draughter (and i hope you don’t) do you talk to her like this? It’s pretty pathetic. You are supposedly educated? I recommend you seek some emotional intelligence training. I for one would never reveal to the likes of you things that I and many other female colleagues have experienced. Shame you don’t live in the real world. Enjoy your little bubble.
Dear Devil’s Advocate… do you think the ‘daily violence and oppression’ we see across the world just occurs spontaneously? The BS behaviour Michelle speaks of, the casual (or not so casual) sexism she’s been subjected to is where the behaviour that leads to violence often starts in the Western context.
Also, I’m sure Michelle has many examples of great guys throughout her life and career. You may even be the type of guy to qualify. But the thing is with great guys – is they don’t take offence at a woman calling out sexism and shit behaviour by men. They’re confident in themselves to know we all need to do better to make sure women have equal rights and are free from violence. They know that Michelle’s battle is also their battle and they’re cheering her on. You, however, seem to have taken it all a little too personally for me assume you fall in the great guy category.
Just saying.
@Andrew
Blaming the treatment of women in say the Middle East on the West is an astonishing leap of logic. Do you think an off-colour comment at an ad agency in Sydney will lead to female mutilation, stoning of women and kidnapping and selling them as sex slaves? If so, the burden of evidence rests upon you.
Being for equal rights and against violence isn’t what we’re talking about. We all agree about that. What Michelle is talking about is freedom from uncomfortable emotions and having to deal with people she doesn’t like. She wants special treatment simply for being a woman. That means discrimination against men.
It’s not a battle, it’s called living. We all have to do it.
Suggesting I’m a bad guy for pointing out faulty logic is a rather childish way of discrediting me. I take offense not so much on behalf of myself as on behalf of logic and reason.
“…have some freaking empathy…”
“Life is unfair. Grow up.”
There’s always someone who comes along to prove the point of the article.
And you’re an idiot.
I am not sexist, but I am confused how women feel as though they need to wear cleavage revealing clothing in the office.
As a guy, I would be told to do my shirt up if I came to work wearing an open collared shirt showing my chest.
Maybe attitude changes need to start on how women and men both see each other and enjoy the best of who we are without the need for looking at sexualisation in the office.
Agree, work attire should be neutral. But I’m not sure that’s the basis of the problem… It certainly doesn’t help though.
Boobs aren’t optional. They grow on the female anatomy. How or why is cleavage even being bought in to this debate?
I just keep mine covered, I’ve seen a few very low cut tops at work that make me feel a little uncomfortable at times.
Wow. A response with the full suite – surely you were flattered, its worse in other countries, I get groped too, its a conspiracy against white men, it happened in the past but not now, you are looking for excuses for your faults (which I declare are many so let me tell you about them), feel sorry for the ‘man who is down’ it’s not his fault… Please stop. Please listen. It happens. Read the research if you need to see it told in data. It exists. Please take the passion you show in your reply to acknowledge the problem and start helping out with solutions. You don’t need to shout people down.
Michelle, you know you’ve hit a nerve when cowardly anonymous commenters post long rants about how the widely acknowledged problem, backed by years of independent data, is a “conspiracy”.
Someone get that man a tin foil hat before the zombie feminists come for his meagre braaaainz!
Or better yet an early retirement, so the rest of us can get on with creating a progressive and diverse industry where great ideas can thrive. I know most men want that to happen as much as women.
“progressive and diverse”
More like Regressive and Intolerant.
“…where great ideas can thrive.”
How can one thrive in an environment that crushes anyone else who has an opinion you don’t like?
As a Chinese woman, its people like you I stay away from. You have a condescending, self-righteous tone about you.
You give us women a bad name. Just like your fellow female on-line bullies; dismissing, mocking, and calling people names. The foul mouth knows no bounds with all the discussion I’ve read. Simply because someone has a different opinion.
What is scary is that my ancestry went through Chairman Mao’s purge by his Red Guards. The Red Guards were activist students from university and high school. They bullied and beat anyone who didn’t follow their “Little Red Book”. It took them over 40 years to even begin apologising for what they did.
And so it is today, history repeats itself…In the Western world, if one even shares a different opinion, you’ll just blow up at them. Instantly offended.
You think you’re doing good, but in my eyes, you and your fellow on-line bullies are no different to Chairman Mao and his Red Guards.
On a side note, Communist Chinese are no different to people like you. Any criticism isn’t to be tolerated. Its no wonder the world does nothing when China messes with Hong Kong or kidnap and beat its citizens for daring to voice a negative view of the Govt.
The saddest is the West has no problems in abandoning the ability to express an opinion without being lynched in the 21st century. Its clear liberty is taking a backseat to one’s feelings.
Taking offense doesn’t give you power in the long run. It just places a red flag in other people’s eyes. So they can avoid you in the future.
+1 to the devil’s advocate
We could all go back in history and find old fashioned opinions and attitudes to complain about, and most would sound draconian today.
I was not always the fat old white man you could see today, when I joined the work force 48 years ago, I was approached a number of times by men with sexual interests, I was often made to feel like a clumsy boy, and a dumb ox, by those who were older wiser and better off than I. I believe we called it “right of passage,” the process of growing to maturity, and of “finding yourself.”
Political claptrap abounds in all argument, and no less so in, so called, feminist argument. Women have choices to make, just as men have, those choices are not always the same choices, and the view ahead is often very different. The arguments about salary, wages, fees , status and power, are often personal frustrations driven by greed, and the natural opinion, accurate or inaccurate, that one is smarter and /or better than the next fellow.
We realise as we become parents and grandparents, that there are vastly more important life matters than our own personal status and income. we also relate better as individuals, once the hot force of powerful sexuality has lost its inferno, and settled to a comforting smolder.
Equality? I doubt that it will ever be realised, certainly not to mutual satisfaction; the business of being a man and the business of being a woman has always been a highly individual occupation.
Thank you, Michelle.
Thank you, Michelle
Devil’s advocate.
1. Yes, she is a remarkable woman who has risen to the top despite c**nts like you.
2. You don’t need to be unusually attractive to get that sort of attention from men in advertising, generally, all you really need is a pair of tits.
3. No data? How about 75% of ads are written by men. 11% of creative directors are female (less than 3% in Australia). Um, how about women control 80% of financial decisions (93% for over 40’s) shall I carry on?
4. I’ll give you this one. Yes, she could have been mistaken for a secretary 15 years ago. Today they call them PA’s.
5. If Brad Pitt was a creepy boss, you’d refuse his jewellery. I’ve worked for many handsome creative directors (Christen Monge, swoon!) but it’s only the ugly ones who think their position makes them attractive to women.
6. Pretty little thing is not a compliment in a business context.
7. Being groped is not appropriate in a business context (I know you may enjoy it, but ugly men usually take what they can get).
8. Yes, some women in positions of power can be arrogant and assertive (up till now that’s what it’s taken), but I reckon I can name 20 prize male c**nts in advertising for every one of your women. ( I bet you’re on my list!)
9. Have met some amazing men in my career, but only a very small handful that actually helped my career (I bet you’re not on that list!)
10. Yes, everyone goes to networking events, wonder how comfortable you would be if you were the lone male in a sea of women more powerful than you?
11. Michelle’s experiences may not be “that bad”, but add them to every other advertising woman’s war stories and you have an endemic problem.
12.The cause of the daily violence against women is a lack of respect for women. You are part of the problem, not the solution.
13. A conspiracy against white men? Aww you poor pretty little things, toughen the f**k up!
14. If you truly believed in the diversity of opinion why don’t you put your name to your post?
15. Oooh, poor little Kevin is down and we’re kicking him? Not hard enough! When he was CEO of Lion Nathan I was not allowed to work on beer because of the culture he created. Fortunately, a great man (there, you go, I’m naming one of the few good ones) Gordon Cairnes took his place and let my little female-led agency bring James Squire to life.
16. Yes, life is unfair, mainly because up until now the world has been run by entitled white men.
Vive la revolution.
Jane Evans for PM! Awesome smackdown.
Firstly, Devil’s advocate, can I just say, as a white male, how happy and comfortable I felt coming in and reading your thoughts (sic) here; I had not understood the arguments properly until you mansplained the sh*t out of them and I was able to fully and happily comprehend what was being said…
Yep, that was sarcasm buddy (just so you got it).
Having worked both client and agency-side across my career I can safely say that I’ve met a bunch of people like yourself and Kevin Roberts, men who have no clue how to deal with the fact that the world’s changing and that that it might actually make sense to change with it (might actually learn something, you never know). Instead, you hear the same tired bullsh*t over and over in these discussions, and there are always a bunch of guys ready to come out with crap like “maybe pretty little thing is a compliment”. Really? What utter sh*t.
When you’re equipped for an informed discussion on diversity and inclusion, come back and comment. Until then anything you come out with is going to be a bunch of tired, ill-informed and generally waste of time crap – but hey, you’ve been involved in the discussion and put that chick back in her place huh?
Jane Evans. You rock. Thank you!
@jane evans
It’s difficult to respond to rambling so uncontaminated by reason, but don’t worry, I’ll give it a go.
1. Wow. When the c-word comes out you know you’re in for an intellectual treat.
2. I was trying to make a point about virtue signalling. But reading your post I realise that the appreciation for sarcasm is a skill you don’t possess.
3. All your statistics says is that more men than women are creative? So what? More women than men are nurses, more women than men are in account service and more men than women dig ditches and build houses. If women control 80/93% of financial decisions (I presume you refer to household expenses?) that suggests to me a significant imbalance of power in the home in favour of women. I take it you don’t see that as an issue worthy of attention.
4. My point is that we’ve come a long way in 15 years, so I don’t think it’s much of a problem anymore. Anyways, it’s hardly the end of the world.
5. Again you miss my point. Why is it sexism if you don’t like the guy, but ok if it’s Chris Monge? We can’t read your mind.
6. Agree
7. Imagine if I commented on your looks…
8. You sound like one of the good ones, let’s hope you have lots of power.
9. Yes, we all exist to help you in your career.
10. As a junior you’re usually the least powerful. A sea of women sounds pretty good to me, as long as you’re not among them.
11. As opposed to the experience of every man, which is automatically discredited.
12. So disrespect leads to violence and disagreeing equates to being disrespectful? And your personal attacks are what?
13. As opposed to you, I don’t feel sorry for myself. I argue against it. Too bad reason is a
14. The fact that you can use language like this in an industry forum without fearing it will affect your standing as a professional says everything about the current climate for the exchange of ideas. I wouldn’t want to come across you in my career, let alone a dark alley.
15. Being fired for one’s opinion is not enough. I rest my case.
16. So it’s payback time is it? Being born a man truly is the original sin in your eyes.
+1 @jane evans
I love how a bunch of people call out Roberts for perpetuating discrimination through a generalist, unsubstantiated statement and then counter it with more completely generalist, anecdotal statements.
There is an assumed notion that there is discrimination between men and women but I’m yet to see anyone in this debate reference data that proves for or against – data that controls for years of experience, desire to progress, role/position etc.
For the love of all things sacred can someone please publish some stats on this as opposed to listening to this tripe.
SNAP ^
Jane .. what are the two missing letters in c**nts? Counts? Chants?
Ahh, hang on. I know. They are all Clints!
Women are conditioned to get over disappointments. Not getting the man you want, the job you want, the pay you want, the life they want, we are taught to adjust..and childcare responsibility sharing is just not equal among men and women. With no support system or help it all rests on the woman. Doesn’t mean we want better jobs or seniority or responsibilities any less.
Try caring and providing for a family for 25 years. Women are upto anything really. And let no man put us down
What a hot mess! Men are barbarians, we haven’t evolved enough yet (take a few more thousand years) to not want to not impregnate every female who passes by.
For men wanting to stay safe the biggest problem I’ve encountered is the Police. Male police are some of the worst sexist pigs in existence. Unfortunately, whenever a sexist male pig is cornered by a woman intent on ruining a man’s life, any suggestion by her that any other man has sexually assaulted her is taken as the truth by any sexist male pig (male police outnumber femal police everywhere, perpetuating the problem). I’ve been on the receiving end of such accusations – felt my life collapse as said pig passes on the hostile woman’s claims. Crushing. Why does he believe her? – because he would assault her and impregnate her too, therefore assumes I would want to too. Not yet evolved enough.
What’s the point of my comment? Women are just as manipulative as men, in fact their psychological bullying eclipses the bumbling overt violence of men. I’ve received the most filthy pile-on by ‘feminists’ on Twitter when one woman ‘feminist’ tweeted “Question for women, a man I met invited me on a third date to go hiking and all I could think of was murder murder murder murder – what do you think, should I go?” I tweeted back about what the individual man who invited her for a walk would think of her expecting him to murder her. The pile-on was vicious – nothing to do with the fact that the original tweeter had her head up her arse. What if that man was your brother or son? How would that man actually feel when he learned he was likely a murderer? Crushed I would imagine. No third date he would run away, and run fast.
Men have to put up with a lot of sexist bullshit too. I understand and accept that women get more than their share, but, not evolved far enough yet.
Until society starts training males and females from a very young age about respect, empathy, sharing, community, family, ethics, morality, bullying, sexism and equality then barbarism and psychological bullying will remain the norm.
But my money is on evolution, not education.
Fight for your rights women, fight to be equal, but do it with love and respect. And men, go to a sperm bank and spread your love that way. And get a good lawyer, you’ll need one one day.
Don’t dare @ me with ‘mansplaining’ either. Fuck off.
Thanks for mansplaining that.
are all the replies moderated by
(a) a woman
(b) a man
?
Honestly, who cares. The PC brigade are ruining this country and drivel like this does nothing to help anyone.
Astute and well written article. I run an agency, and have been in the industry for over 20 years . Of your bullet pointed list, it is astounding to me how many I have also experienced. I had even forgotten the ” being set up in a flat in London’ part, that was whilst fending off the advances on my boss in the back of a taxi whilst my team mate chatted away to the taxi driver.
A lot of men find this too confrontational so they feel a bit queasy and bury their heads in the sand.This does not mean this doesn’t exist, you stupid fuckwits.
Mumbrella,
Is there a reason you haven’t published my response to @jane evans?
Thanks,
TDA
Hi the devil’s advocate,
It’s been published now – apologies on the delay.
Cheers,
Miranda – Mumbrella
A lot of comments on this page back up what you’re saying. You can’t correct fools but the wise will appreciate it and adjust. Thanks for sharing X
@simon julian @loller et. al
Why is it that every opinion by a man is dismissed as “mansplaining”? It’s nothing but a cowardly way of silencing and discrediting opponents and in fact fits the definition of sexism better than anything I’ve ever said.
I’m not saying sexism doesn’t exist. We all agree it’s bad. So instead of simply joining the choir of outrage, let’s move on:
My point is there’s nothing systematic or cultural about harassment and sexism anymore. Bringing up what happened 10, 20, 30 years ago is irrelevant because we’ve made so much progress since then. Discrimination and harassment is illegal and so obviously not tolerated by the vast and vocal majority. This is demonstrated by the reactions to KR’s comments. When it takes place it is punished, in the court of law or social media or both.
But it’s all gone too far and it shows no sign of stopping. Hard-won rights like freedom of speech are now being sacrificed on the altar of pseudo equality. Instead of celebrating our victories (we have equality of opportunity, which is different from equality of outcome – the latter being communism), we want affirmative actions (discrimination) and censorship, and then…?
What’s next? For make no mistake, the Twitter lynch mob won’t stop until they have absolute power.
Feminism is an ideology with totalitarian aspirations that has now trickled down to those of you who lack the ability to muster up a single independent, objective thought. Rather than aspiring to enlightenment ideals of individual rights it sets groups up against each other. Whereas Marxism dealt in classes, feminism deals in gender and race. You are your sex and colour and you better get in line with your team, or risk ostracisation.
Big words, I know. Which is unfortunately why you none of this will make any sense to you, and you will yell something back at me and continue to call me names.
All I can do is hope history proves me right and that reason prevails.
May Gallop be with you.
“Why is it that every opinion by a man is dismissed as “mansplaining”? It’s nothing but a cowardly way of silencing and discrediting opponents and in fact fits the definition of sexism better than anything I’ve ever said.”
Well, the thing is you’re not actually being silenced. You’re being argued with. You seem to expect to be able to say things and have women accept them.
And as for mansplaining – it’s fairly simple. A woman has a different experience in the workplace than a man. She said “this is my experience as a woman and this is why its screwed up” you basically said “you’re wrong”. You seem to be using your “authority” as a man to “debunk” a woman’s experience.
Now, if you disagree with her, fine. That’s your prerogative. But honestly, I suspect the reason you disagree if because you’ve probably called your share of female colleagues “pretty little things” and can’t seem to accept that it made them uncomfortable.
If you have – well, whatever. It’s the author’s prerogative to think you’re a d*ck for doing that. But you don’t have the right to say she’s wrong for being offended. I think you have the right to admit you don’t care that such behaviour makes her uncomfortable. But you don’t have the right to say she’s wrong.
I expect you’ll probably claim I’m way off in my assessment of you. Maybe I am. But if that’s the case, then I’d work on your branding.
Nicely said, Andrew
The Devil’s Advocate,
Actually I haven’t called you any names…
mansplain
manˈspleɪn/
verbinformal
gerund or present participle: mansplaining
(of a man) explain (something) to someone, typically a woman, in a manner regarded as condescending or patronising.
“Could it be that ‘pretty little thing’ is simply meant as a compliment? A silly, old-fashioned one to be sure, but nevertheless.”
Either way, it is denigrating and, whether meant as a compliment or not, ensures that the power relationship between the parties is made absolutely clear.
“Do you think groping doesn’t go both ways? I’ve been groped many, many times. By men and women. And I’m a man.”
Has happened to me before as well in the industry. Not by my boss though, and not in the context of a power game, which is the point.
To be clear, you’re absolutely entitled to your opinion. Your opinion, in the context you provided it earlier, mainly consisted of “move on and get over it” – not exactly providing much of a concerted debate in my opinion.
Not being female I haven’t experienced any of what Michelle and others have outlined here in the context in which they have experienced it, and neither have you. Which pretty much disqualifies us both from telling any woman to ‘get over it’ as far as I am concerned.
What I can do is to be open to learning from my mistakes, try to understand the context in which professional women may experience some of the issues discussed in this debate and work to ensure that any workplace in which I am involved is as fair, open, diverse and free of bias as possible.
I invite you to do the same – still without any name calling.
Great article Michelle!
So much of this rubbish still goes on. I’m about to leave my current company and a male colleague just commented to myself and other men in my team how sad it is they won’t have me to look at anymore.
He is in his early 30s, so not exactly a dinosaur from another era.
A lot has changed, but as long as this casual sexism continues, we still have work to do to reach equality.
Attn: the devil’s advocate. You have been labelled a c**t, ugly, confrontational and a fuckwit – all for daring to voice an opinion different to a cohort of commentators.
Imagine if we swung this 180 degrees and swapped the respective genders in this exchange. We’d have threats of reportering this to the police, media authorities and there’d be calls for the author to be blocked from mumbrella threads.
Things are absolutely out of control when someone is so denigrated by posing a thoughtful submission to the debate.
@A.J. Smith – I appreciate the support. Even an ugly c**nt starts doubting his sanity when met with some of these comments:-)
@Alex
Yours and other comment are full of rather uncharitable assumptions about my personality and my motives for engaging in the debate. You make the exact kind of generalisations based on gender and (presumed) race that gets men like Kevin Roberts fired. It must feel nice being up on your high moral horse where no one can touch you.
It’s too bad they don’t teach rhetoric in your gender studies class, as you would’ve heard about something the Greeks called ethos. Dismissing an argument as “mansplaining” attacks my credibility and moral, influencing how my argument is interpreted.
(Yeah, yeah, yeah, you’re allowed to do it. But it is intellectually dishonest and cowardly. Fight me with arguments or not at all. Judging from your post, you don’t have a single one.)
Anyone reading my comments will now think I’m cartoon character; a fat, rich, white man who spend my days oppressing and harassing women and who seeks protect my power and position. You think anyone will give my arguments a fair go now that they picture a Donald Trump look-a-like sitting in his private plane, sipping Champagne made from the tears of his female sex slaves?
What if Kevin Roberts had been a woman of colour? Would that have changed the way you perceived the comments, or would you and rest of your interpretative drum circle have chased her too out of the village?
I’m not calling any individual’s experience ”wrong”. I’m disagreeing with her conclusion and saying everyone’s individual experience, including my own, is irrelevant.
(You accuse me of using an imagined authority and privilege. It’s all in your head. If anyone has authority in this whole debacle, it’s the outraged lynch mob!)
Being offended is uncomfortable, but we’re not in kindergarten anymore. Grown ups just can’t make sweeping generalisations based on a tiny fraction of reality, filtered through their own emotions and expect to be taken seriously.
Just look at how the personal experience of the anonymous creative (that was published in the opinion section today) was completely dismissed by the very same people who applaud Michelle. If that’s not bias and double standards, what is?
That’s it for me. I’ll quit while I’m ahead. Tonight I will celebrate my victory at the golf club.
Anyway how about some useful advice? I need some.
I have two CD roles to fill. I have been to 2 recruitment agents and have 12 candidates. 2 are female and 10 are male.
I have never hired based on race or gender of a candidate ever before.
BUT I do have more male CDs than females as no matter where I recruit from they always come back with far more male candidates than female.
I don’t want to perpetuate the problem of a bad male female ratio any further.
Do I simply ignore the male candidates and choose from the two female candidates? Do I put my briefs back out to recruiters and ask for female only candidates?
Help please, thanks
I suffer the same problem. The worst bit is, every good female creative I know are very happy where they are, and their company would be stupid not to keep them happy. I wish I could hire them.
However, we have an unofficial ‘quota’ in our office. Unless I can find someone from overseas, I will end up hiring an entitled woman who’s work and aptitude is bucketloads worse than the males I’m interviewing.
It’s madness, there are a lot of creatives in this industry that should be put out to pasture but they keep getting hired because of ‘diversity’ quotas.
If the woman are more talented then hire them. We do not want to be hired because of our vaginas. Yes there are a few out there who are using this so called ‘revelution’ to get ahead but there a way more of us who are just as good as the top men in the industry. Let the work speak. Perhaps we should have blind interviews where you hire based on the work on a muffled voice interviews without seeing the sex of the person? Now that’s revolutionary!