Dynamic Duos: ‘Let’s just say we are quite co-dependent’
In this week's Dynamic Duos, Decision Design's Jess McCartney, managing director - learning, and Sandy Muir, head of growth, reflect on their nine years of friendship, their chemistry as colleagues, and the proud professional, and personal, moments they've shared over the years.
In Dynamic Duos, Mumbrella each week asks two colleagues with a professional and personal affiliation to share with readers the importance of workplace relationships in an increasingly hybridised world of work.
Jess McCartney:
Sandy and I live in the same suburb, our kids go to the same school, we have worked together multiple times, we see the same doctor… let’s just say we are quite co-dependent.
I remember interviewing Sandy for a brand coordinator role at Deakin Uni in 2015. Literally three minutes into the interview, I wanted to hire her and cancel all other interviews. Within a few years, I’d promoted her twice and I could literally not function without her.
Sandy is the youngest of 10, so as you can imagine, she is the greatest stakeholder manager imaginable – there isn’t a personality type or behaviour she hasn’t seen. She’s unflappable, which also makes her highly empathetic. She is never reactionary and is always the first to take the most generous view on why someone is behaving how they are behaving, without using that as a reason to excuse things.
I think Sandy and my relationship is built on a similar approach to life: do great work and laugh a lot while you are doing it. We value the same things, and we have the same vision, but we come at things differently and we like doing different things. It makes us a great pair – we ‘yes and’ each other enthusiastically a lot.
A powerful shared moment for us was at Mumbrella’s MSIX conference, listening to the founders of behaviour change science consultancy Decision Design speak. We were literally elbowing each other with excitement during the entire presentation (well, I was probably annoyingly elbowing her). And after we had the same thoughts about how we needed to begin applying this science to the way we did brand, marketing, communications and campaigns.
And we both now work at Decision Design, so fair enough to say that this was a major moment in our lives.
Sandy and I agree well: when we think something is good, we get the same level of unnecessarily high excitement and mutual self-congratulations. But more importantly, we disagree really well. We feel perfectly comfortable telling each other if we don’t think something is right and working together to get it to that point where we think it is (cue unnecessarily high excitement and mutual self-congratulations).
Sandy is also hilarious. I don’t feel the need to elaborate on this. It’s just a fact.
Sandy and I teams each other all day and then WhatsApp each other during the night. We have multitasking conversations that can span multiple platforms seamlessly from work to shoe choice.
Sandy Muir:
Jess hired me in my first client-side role. I’d been working in brand agencies for a number of years and was ready to try the other side. It didn’t take long to realise we had a very similar appreciation for building strong brands, simple yet useful strategies and pushing creative boundaries to stand out and create distinction. We both fell in love with creating brands using a behavioural science approach which was the foundation of the work (and success) we had at Deakin.
Jess is an incredible mind. Smart and creative. In-touch and hilarious. She has this ability to step back and assess any situation, define the gap/challenge and communicate it back in a simple and straight-forward way. She is a big thinker and always pushing the limits of what can be done. She has a no-fuss, no drama attitude. Needless to say, she’s wonderful.
Jess and I complete each other at work – there’s a shared understanding of the quality in which something needs to be done. We know how to push each other, when to support each other and when to simply laugh (which we do a lot!). We are each other’s fresh eyes, constructive critics and biggest cheerleaders. We argue well, we play well and I couldn’t imagine doing it with anyone else!
Jess and I live in the same suburb, use the same hairdresser, and our boys go to the same school. When I left Deakin, we were still a big part of each other’s lives. A few years on, Jess picked her moment to ask me to join her at Decision Design where she’d been MD of Learning for six months. It was like we’d never been apart.
Working at Decision Design together has been an absolute dream. It’s a company we had both admired for so long – working with them any chance we got, in whatever role we were in. To be here together and do what we love is beyond incredible. We just launched the refreshed Decision Design identity together and I almost can’t believe it’s real. I have to keep pinching myself. For us, being part of the Decision Design team is all about our passion for using behavioural science to create strong brands. We put ourselves in the client’s shoes to help drive the best outcomes. We even have our own ‘client hats’. Pink looks good on us.
Jess on Sandy:
Most memorable moment with Sandy: Less a moment and more a side of Sandy’s personality we like to call Brandy (for obvious reasons). Brand is activated when someone wants to do something outrageously bad with the brand. Sandy’s normally calm and considered approach is replaced with an unusually outraged persona. And I LOVE IT.
Best word to describe her: Caring – it might seem like a soft word but it’s not. Sandy cares deeply about her family, her friends, her colleagues, her work. And she acts on it – she’s always checking in with people and looking for improvement. As she often says at work ‘we can do better’. And she’s always right.
Most annoying habit or endearing behaviour she has: Hmmm, can I say I find it super endearing how indulgent Sandy is with me given how annoying I am?
Sandy on Jess:
Most memorable moment with Jess: Internally launching the evolved Deakin brand together was special. When we joined Deakin, brand perceptions were mediocre. We knew the work we had done was important and that it was the start of us turning things around for Deakin. We road showed the launch together at each campus and it was one of many very proud moments I’ve shared with Jess.
Best word to describe her: Sharp (and wonderful). Jess is one of those awesome combinations of super smart with hilarious making her absolutely wonderful. She is intelligent and insightful. Someone who understands things at their core and is able to relay the important, meaningful aspects to the audience while also getting a laugh. She is one of the funniest, silliest, wittiest people I know. It’s a wonderful combination.
Most annoying habit or endearing behaviour she has: When Jess gets excited about good design, she all but pushes me over. She starts elbowing me and pumps her fist to show her excitement and I love it. Getting this vibe was made very hard during Covid! I love that we get excited by the same beautiful detail in type or combination of colours in a brand suite or the perfect illustration that tells a story. It helps to have the same aesthetic.
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Lauren McNamara is a journalist at Mumbrella, covering the creative and PR beat. She joined in November 2022 as editorial assistant, after completing a Bachelor of Communications (Journalism) at UTS.
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